Last part of my post got messed up:

OP:

I do spend a lot of time with my mom. And, in fact, we do an annual girl's trip with mom, me, and my sister which is always a lot of fun. Like I said, no antipathy at all with my sister and I'd rather keep it that way!

So why don't you guys just invite your daughters to this? That would satisfy grandma and you'd be there to supervise. You already spend time as a family with your a-hole husbands, so wouldn't this be even better? All the women, with no fighting husbands around. And you already said the cousin is very sweet when your mom is around.

My mom, for example, once invited my daughter to an evening event that revolved around an interest of daughters. Then, last minute, she invited the cousin. My daughter was originally going to spend the night with my mom afterwards. I made a last minute excuse that we would pick her up after the event. My mom was upset because she said the girls have such a good time together, why couldn’t I let them have a sleepover at her place.

Well, why couldn't you? Your concerns about what your niece gets up to are valid, but do you honestly think that she's going to get drunk and high at grandma's house? This would actually be a good way for them to hang out and be completely supervised. I would not let them have a sleepover at SIL's host or hang out alone, but this would be pretty safe.

Could it be that you are overprotective because your older child got into drugs? Do you think DD is going to think drugs are cool because she hangs out with cousin? But you let DD spend time with her older sibling and DD didn't get into drugs, right?

OP here. My daughter doesn’t want to do this. She’s 16. If she wanted additional social time in her schedule, she absolutely want it with her own friends. Any definitely would not want her mother arranging stuff like this!

You keep saying this, but you never say that you talked to your daughter about this and what her opinion is. Does she mind spending time with her cousin or not? If she doesn't want to spend time with her, then continue to keep them apart, but if she does, then there's no need to swoop in and cancel her overnight with grandma.

If your mom would just like to see her granddaughters together at her house, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. You seem excessively worried about your niece "corrupting" your daughter. She's exposed to other kids besides her cousin. On the other hand, if your daughter doesn't want to spend time with her cousin, that choice should be respected.

Tell your mom to butt out. Your daughter shouldn’t be forced into spending time with people that she’s uncomfortable with. And cousin relationships can fade even if you were once close as kids. Especially if the parents are not on good terms.

Do you really think bad cousin is going to get into deviant behaviour when hanging out with straight ege introvert cousin at grandmas?

Maybe she quite likes being able to be younger / well beahved and do non deviant things with her cousing at grandmas.

If you have a reason to not trust them when they are together because of things that have happened - fine, but I wouldn't write her off just beause on her own time she is out partying with friends.

Anonymous wrote:Have you had an actual talk with your mom about any of this?

I guess I just feel like you should say: "Mom, Larla and Sally are old enough to make their own plans" and leave it at that.

But would it help if your mom felt seen? Like, just empathizing with her about her wish for a close family, and how it didn't pan out that way for her?

I’ve definitely had very real and very empathetic talks with my mother about the overall dynamic.

She definitely gets that the girls, at this age, can make their own plans. She just figures that they aren’t motivated to do so, but certainly wouldn’t object to a little push from her. And, to be fair, the cousin is always game. And my sister is always open to these setups as well.

It’s the constant invitations and ideas from my mom that is getting exhausting. And I can’t address the root problem… I don’t want them spending unstructured time together. So, my mom sees them chatting happily at dinner and is baffled that I’m not open to her plans to create more time for them to be together. So she gets “sneaky” about it, so then I have to be even more direct in declining. It’s just not a great dynamic.

Have you had an actual talk with your mom about any of this?

I guess I just feel like you should say: "Mom, Larla and Sally are old enough to make their own plans" and leave it at that.

But would it help if your mom felt seen? Like, just empathizing with her about her wish for a close family, and how it didn't pan out that way for her?

Anonymous wrote:Invite cousins over to your house, or some kind of neutral space like movies, amusement park, water park, shopping trip, out to dinner, etc. There are lots of ways to spend time together that don’t involve being at someone’s house.

OP here. My daughter doesn’t want to do this. She’s 16. If she wanted additional social time in her schedule, she absolutely want it with her own friends. Any definitely would not want her mother arranging stuff like this!

Invite cousins over to your house, or some kind of neutral space like movies, amusement park, water park, shopping trip, out to dinner, etc. There are lots of ways to spend time together that don’t involve being at someone’s house.

Anonymous wrote:What does your daughter want to do? If she wants to hang out with her cousin then have her over to your house. If she doesn't just tell your mom she is old enough to make her own plans.

My daughter is very much an introvert. She has good friends at school, minimal drama, and is very clear that after long days at school and practice, she likes to use the weekends to wind down and be solitary. She says she enjoys spending time with her cousin at family events, but she doesn’t go out out of her way to plan outings with her own friends, let alone a cousin. But she’s also very sweet with my mom (both girls are), and is always positive when my mom plans things.

My mom, for example, once invited my daughter to an evening event that revolved around an interest of daughters. Then, last minute, she invited the cousin. My daughter was originally going to spend the night with my mom afterwards. I made a last minute excuse that we would pick her up after the event. My mom was upset because she said the girls have such a good time together, why couldn’t I let them have a sleepover at her place.

That’s just one example.

What does your daughter want to do? If she wants to hang out with her cousin then have her over to your house. If she doesn't just tell your mom she is old enough to make her own plans.

I’d be direct with Mom in telling her to stop, and just accept this isn’t going to happen. The cousins are very different people.

Anonymous wrote:Does your mom know that your husbands don't get along?

It's unfortunately extremely obvious. We started out with full family trips which were not pleasant. At this point, we mutually make excuses to keep one of them home for large family events. It's unspoken but accepted. My husband is absolutely as much as fault as my brother-in-law, but the behavior was pretty bad on both sides.

Does your mom know that your husbands don't get along?

Curious on folks thoughts on handling this.

We live very closer to my sister's family as well as my mother. My sister and I have never been close. No antipathy, but no real depth to our relationship. Our husbands, on the other hand, are like oil and water, and at this point, twenty years into the marriage, both can be pretty badly behaved as far as antagonizing the other. (Like bringing up political topics in conversation that they know they are polar opposites on, or making pointed comments about the other's religious belief under the guise of being "straightforward"). It's unpleasant, unlikely to change at this point, and just means neither of us really seek out any family time together.

This is just background.

This is all fairly distressing to my elderly mother, who, giving up on our generation, has now made it our mission that the cousins are close. Specifically, my daughter and my sister's daughter. I've known my sister's daughter since she was a baby. She's a smart, funny, lovely girl in a lot of ways. But, she's also not someone I'd be thrilled about my daughter spending a lot of unsupervised time with, especially now that she can drive. They are both 16. My daughter is pretty clean cut. She's home directly after school. She doesn't go out on weekends. She has plenty of friends, but does a very time-consuming sport, so she's busy. You can never be sure, but I see no sign she is taking drugs, and we went through that with an older child, so I don't think I'm missing anything. Her cousin is just much more of a partier. Her parents have always let her drink at home. (Like full glasses of wine with dinner) My daughter has shown me social media posts, for example, where the cousin says she's drunk, taking photos lounging against half-dressed guys, posting friends passed out at parties. I'm pretty sure she's been high at family events (again... been down this road with my own older kid).

I don't feel like it's my business to talk to my sister about this. But I also don't want to send my daughter over to spend the night or hang out on the weekends unsupervised. My mom is getting pushier and pushier about trying to set up situations where the girls get together. (Like inviting everyone over to dinner on a Friday and then contacting the girls separately about staying overnight so they can hang out... things like that)

It's difficult enough keeping the husbands civilized. I keep coming up with excuses (early practice the next day, etc) to not have the girls hanging out alone.

I can't see any alternative than to keep deferring. I'm not going to bring this up to my mom. I can't see anything good coming of basically telling my sister I don't trust her kid around mine.

I do spend a lot of time with my mom. And, in fact, we do an annual girl's trip with mom, me, and my sister which is always a lot of fun. Like I said, no antipathy at all with my sister and I'd rather keep it that way!