Anonymous wrote:
The question is: are you 100% sure this person abused their spouse? Illegal drug use is one thing, abuse of a human is another.

I have an abusive husband. I would not be able to socialize with someone who abused their spouse or their children. That's a red line for me.

+1

I can also spot covert abusers who bait their victims in public and in private.
-DP

Sorry OP the genders do matter.

I can agitate and piss off my wife, yell, stand in her way, and goad her to push me….. and then call the police and accuse her of physically abusing me.

Works every time.

And she’ll get hysteric when the police show up. I’ll stay cool as a cucumber and watch her get hauled to the station.

Works every time. Turn it in to the He said She said thing. Win win.

So similar to the many divorced friends posts here today.

Things that make you go Hmmmm.

Anonymous wrote:Well, I would have no interest in dinner or drinks with an abuser so I would no longer invite that person. I cannot even comprehend remaining neutral.

This. A million times this.

What is your actual dilemma here. You
A) understand the public persona/private abuser dynamic and
B) are certain the abuse occurred
Given these two things I don’t know why you would ever choose to associate with the abuser, regardless of what anyone else in the friend group thinks or does.

It sounds like you have an internal dissociation going on, you know it’s true but don’t want it to be true.

Of course he/she wants to paper over it and pretend it’s normal aka never happened.

I think the desire to remain neutral is immature and a pipe dream. Neutrality in this situation is essentially siding with the abuser because it is an attempt to normalize what has happened without allowing it to change your relationship to those involved. Staying neutral will effectively end your relationship with the abused person because they are looking to create a safe support system right now and they will not be able to maintain trust with anyone who is neutral on the issue of their abuse experience.

You should also know that for the abused person an attempt to be neutral and try to "be there for" the abuser is very likely to be viewed as an expression of doubt on whether or not the abuse occurred. You may not view it that way but the abused person likely will feel that way.

Since I don't know anyone involved I can say that it is reasonable that someone should support the abuser in their efforts to get clean and to deal with the fallout of their actions -- it doesn't benefit anyone if that person is totally abandoned. However because of my own experience with abuse my loyalty would be to the person who was abused. I wouldn't be able to support an abuser unless my connection to them way more significant and unbreakable (i.e. they were my sibling). Outside of that obligation I would personally choose to support the abused person in whatever way I could and that would include respecting their choice not to maintain our friendship unless I largely cut ties with the abuser. I would be willing to do that for them. But I am an abuse survivor and I don't really think I could do anything else.

I will not knowingly be friends with anyone who has abused someone. The abuser can go make new friends in NA or whatever. Consequences of your actions and all.

Don’t see how or why someone would maintain friendship with someone who was abusing their friend.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a lose/lose. You need an entirely new social group/family. Wow.

What exactly about this is “wow” to you? OP is describing a scenario that is unfortunately very common and crosses all socioeconomic boundaries. My friend’s husband was a respected church-going doctor and also an addict. People aren’t robots and bad stuff happens.

The question is: are you 100% sure this person abused their spouse? Illegal drug use is one thing, abuse of a human is another.

I have an abusive husband. I would not be able to socialize with someone who abused their spouse or their children. That's a red line for me.

No winning here. I agree w the above that your loyalty should go to the closer friend but not at the expense of being the only one who aligns with someone. I also think you can likely maintain some sort of supportive contact with both parties if needed.

Well, I would have no interest in dinner or drinks with an abuser so I would no longer invite that person. I cannot even comprehend remaining neutral.

This sounds like a lose/lose. You need an entirely new social group/family. Wow.

It depends where your loyalty and integrity are. The answer is different for everyone.

If I were closer to the abused, that's where my support and loyalty would be. If I were closer to the addict/abuser then that's where my support would go. Who do you want to be a better friend with? Neutrality will lose one friend, same as loyalty.

I have been part of a fairly close circle of friends, including several couples, for a couple of years.

Recently, one of the couples split up. We (the friends) learned after the breakup that one person in that couple had been abusing substances and lying about abusing substances. We learned a few days later that that person had also terrorized and abused their partner physically and in many other ways.

Our group is having a hard time figuring out a way forward. It has been difficult to process that the person we thought we knew was someone else entirely. At first, some felt that they wanted to support that person since they needed help and support after a breakup and dealing with substance abuse and we were led to believe they did not have other support. But then the details of the abuse began trickling out, and now it is different.

The abused partner, as well as another friend who was a witness, have said that they do not to be friends with anyone in our group who continues to maintain a friend relationship with the abuser.

I personally have no doubts that this abuse happened, and I have had other life experiences that have shown me that abusers can put on a charming and innocent persona when they are around others. In this case, the abuser seems to be minimizing what happened, kind of pretending it wasn’t a big deal, and is asking to hang out with the rest of us.

Our group is split, with some saying they want to maintain neutrality and saying that it is unfair to have to choose between the two friends. Others (myself included) do not think this is a situation where neutrality applies, considering the abuse that took place and that the abuser isn’t really acknowledging or taking ownership of their actions.

How would you feel if this happened among friends who mattered to you? How would you proceed?

I have left the genders out because it really should not matter.