Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baseball/softball is best understood as an individual sport with a team component.

Whereas soccer and other sports gain much from seasons, standings and playoffs, baseball and softball don’t necessarily have as much of that aspect in the sports. Thus, playing tournaments exclusively can and does make sense for many baseball/softball teams (especially the better ones) whereas for other sports leagues + tournaments are more impactful.

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

Why don’t these sports gain much from seasons/playoffs? They do in high school like any other sports. They do in rec. Why is it less important in travel?

I mean, every tournament is a playoff. Bracket play is a playoff. Typically it's single elimination, although sometimes double-elimination.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several different softball sanctions for travel teams to play tournaments. There is no NVTBL equivalent for travel teams to play each other locally. There are informal scrimmages that coaches individually set up but other than that, it’s tournaments.

This. If your team is playing USSSA tournaments there actually are standings, but I'm not sure how meaningful they are since some teams play 15 USSSA tournaments a year and some play 4 and you get points by tournament. There's the higher level governing bodies beyond that (Alliance, PGF, etc.) that very few younger age teams participate in locally that also keep some level of standings.

In northern Virginia out in Loudoun they do have a person to set up the scrimmage double headers, but it's still informal.

I wish there was an NVTBL for softball. It seems like it's a crap shoot the level of committment various travel orgs, or even teams with in an org, will require for softball here.

Two reasons why teams play doubleheaders: 1) To tune-up early in the season. Especially if you have a new team or new players -- you're trying to get reps and get the team to gel. Typically, coaches aren't even playing to win in these -- think of them like preseason NFL games. 2) They're cheaper. A Sunday DH is like $125. A 4-game gaurantee tournament is nearly $600. Do the math.

The problem with softball is the talent is diluted. Everyone's in a hurry. Every parent thinks their kid is Jennie Finch. And so when their kid doesn't get enough playing time or enough pitching opportunities, or whatever, they pull the kid and go start their own team. Daddy Ball is a real problem, especially at the 10U and 12U levels.

Anonymous wrote:First kid was a soccer player-- they played in a league against other teams in the division. DD is a softball player and they seem to do random tournaments against different teams each time, plus random games/double-headers against other teams in the general area. There's no actual league/standings/playoffs/etc? It doesn't really matter but I'm curious why there isn't a similar format?

Actually, there are rankings. But they're done by class and sanction using a formula, and, as they get older, by outside publications.

So a 10U softball team in this area would typically play either the United States Speciality Sports Association (USSSA) or USA Softball (which used to be ASA softball). USSSA actually has state, national and regional rankings on its Web site including a Power Ranking that goes up or down based on who you win and lose to. Teams are either Class C (which is basically rec-caliber), Class B or Class A, which is basically like miniature College players. Around here it's mostly C and B teams. There are teams that call themselves A, but they really are not, which they invariably find out when they go to places like Florida, Texas or California and play actual A-level teams. USA keeps standings, too. Although this only really matters when you're trying to scout out opponents. You can also check GameChanger, but that's easily manipulated.

Saturday is all pool-play to determine for win-or-go-home elimination games on Sunday. A typical 16- team field a C team plays 2 games on Saturday. B, A or Open fields play 3. On Sunday there's either one bracket or maybe a Gold and Silver bracket. Win, you keep playing. Lose, you go home. So you could get to the field at 7 a.m. for an 8 a.m. game on Sunday, lose, and be leaving the field at 9:30.

But the point is to win individual tournaments, not really rise in rankings. Some tournaments are a bigger deal than others.

Anonymous wrote:My kid just finished doing this for years. It is random. But over the course of a couple years, it’s amazing how the girls get to recognize names and faces. We were in Pennsylvania on a family trip and ran into a PA softball team out for a day of fun — my kid recognized them and they recognized her. (And trust me my kid is no superstar.) Compared to soccer, it is a much much smaller world. I think the travel hockey scene might be similar.

Yes! We were at the Baltimore Aquarium and a girl came up and said to my daughter, "You pitch for XYZ team, right? You're really good!"

Anonymous wrote:I actually really like the softball tournaments because every weekend is a new opportunity to win it all and it doesn't matter what happened the previous weekend. It's also fun getting to randomly play a mix of teams, including some teams from out of town.

Agree. And OP, it doesn't seem like we need to explain it to you because your OP described the situation perfectly. It is how it is.

My kid just finished doing this for years. It is random. But over the course of a couple years, it’s amazing how the girls get to recognize names and faces. We were in Pennsylvania on a family trip and ran into a PA softball team out for a day of fun — my kid recognized them and they recognized her. (And trust me my kid is no superstar.) Compared to soccer, it is a much much smaller world. I think the travel hockey scene might be similar.

There are a lot more soccer teams than softball teams.

Anonymous wrote:There are several different softball sanctions for travel teams to play tournaments. There is no NVTBL equivalent for travel teams to play each other locally. There are informal scrimmages that coaches individually set up but other than that, it’s tournaments.

This. If your team is playing USSSA tournaments there actually are standings, but I'm not sure how meaningful they are since some teams play 15 USSSA tournaments a year and some play 4 and you get points by tournament. There's the higher level governing bodies beyond that (Alliance, PGF, etc.) that very few younger age teams participate in locally that also keep some level of standings.

In northern Virginia out in Loudoun they do have a person to set up the scrimmage double headers, but it's still informal.

I wish there was an NVTBL for softball. It seems like it's a crap shoot the level of committment various travel orgs, or even teams with in an org, will require for softball here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baseball/softball is best understood as an individual sport with a team component.

Whereas soccer and other sports gain much from seasons, standings and playoffs, baseball and softball don’t necessarily have as much of that aspect in the sports. Thus, playing tournaments exclusively can and does make sense for many baseball/softball teams (especially the better ones) whereas for other sports leagues + tournaments are more impactful.

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

Why don’t these sports gain much from seasons/playoffs? They do in high school like any other sports. They do in rec. Why is it less important in travel?

Baseball/Softball are properly understood as individual sports because gameplay in these sports is (a) a series of discrete individual events in which (b) a player has very little to no impact after the player's involvement in a particular series of gameplay in complete. To put this in practical terms, once the pitcher releases the ball, the pitcher has very limited impact on the remainder of sequence of events that make up a play. Same for a batter. Once contact is made with the ball, the batter has little impact on what follows beyond running the bases. Same for the defender. Once the defender has released the ball, she has very little impact on what happens afterwards. Conversely, in basketball or soccer, a player releasing the ball still has an impact on the outcome of the sequence of events that make up a play and can manipulate the defense through positioning or return of the ball.

The net impact is that baseball/softball rely less on team chemistry than any other sport and why all star teams that don't practice together can play real meaningful baseball/softball games together. In the vast majority of other sports you can't simply amass an All Star team that never practices together and actually play high level competitive [sport]. Teams in other sports need practice time to develop chemistry, timing and understanding of how they interact. The easy break down of baseball/softball into individual, discrete events is also why those sports are the cutting edge of the statistical revolution. Impact is easy to measure when starting and stopping points can be easily identified (which a player impacts a play). And since chemistry is less important in baseball/softball, if you're playing at the top level, what you want to do is play the very top competition as much as possible. To do that, you likely need to travel and play tournament games. It is highly unlikely you'll play the best competition possible in league play.

To put it differently, in team sports like soccer, basketball, hockey, etc, the totality of the team can be greater than the sum of the individual parts. In baseball/softball, the sum is super close the total of the individual parts. League play is good for team sports because you can get a barometer and measure yourself against other teams. High school baseball/softball make up for this problem by mostly playing their league games as series. Whereas in soccer/basketball, you may go weeks in between playing a particular opponent twice. In baseball, you schedule three consecutive games against the same team with the only real difference being who pitches during any given game. League play is done for efficiency in baseball/softball.

This is a great ChatGPT prompt

Anonymous wrote:Baseball/softball is best understood as an individual sport with a team component.

Whereas soccer and other sports gain much from seasons, standings and playoffs, baseball and softball don’t necessarily have as much of that aspect in the sports. Thus, playing tournaments exclusively can and does make sense for many baseball/softball teams (especially the better ones) whereas for other sports leagues + tournaments are more impactful.

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

Why don’t these sports gain much from seasons/playoffs? They do in high school like any other sports. They do in rec. Why is it less important in travel?

There are several different softball sanctions for travel teams to play tournaments. There is no NVTBL equivalent for travel teams to play each other locally. There are informal scrimmages that coaches individually set up but other than that, it’s tournaments.

I actually really like the softball tournaments because every weekend is a new opportunity to win it all and it doesn't matter what happened the previous weekend. It's also fun getting to randomly play a mix of teams, including some teams from out of town.

Baseball/softball is best understood as an individual sport with a team component.

Whereas soccer and other sports gain much from seasons, standings and playoffs, baseball and softball don’t necessarily have as much of that aspect in the sports. Thus, playing tournaments exclusively can and does make sense for many baseball/softball teams (especially the better ones) whereas for other sports leagues + tournaments are more impactful.

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

First kid was a soccer player-- they played in a league against other teams in the division. DD is a softball player and they seem to do random tournaments against different teams each time, plus random games/double-headers against other teams in the general area. There's no actual league/standings/playoffs/etc? It doesn't really matter but I'm curious why there isn't a similar format?