Anonymous
08/23/2024 10:25
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.
Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.
The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.
A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.
A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.
IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.
The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.
I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.
OP is in MoCo. Her kid is getting access in the same manner as non-disabled students. It's all but non-existent for both groups
Anonymous
08/23/2024 09:35
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.
Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.
The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.
A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.
A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.
IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.
The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.
I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.
OP is in MoCo. Her kid is getting access in the same manner as non-disabled students. It's all but non-existent for both groups
Anonymous
08/23/2024 09:31
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.
Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.
The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.
A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.
A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.
IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.
The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.
I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.
Anonymous
08/23/2024 08:07
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.
Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 21:19
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 17:22
Subject: Re:Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Your child can attend a gifted program with an IEP or one of the GT/LD programs. What grade OP?
Anonymous
08/22/2024 17:14
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
My twice exceptional kid was in the GT/LD program of MCPS for middle and high school: gifted, talented and learning disabled. You need an IEP (or sometimes a 504) and an IQ (or at least GAI) above a certain threshold. Since the programs were housed in the next cluster, he was eligible for a special bus.
In practice, it meant being able to access any class at North Bethesda MS and Walter Johnson HS. At the middle school level, the classes were co-taught, and there was a dedicated resource class just for the GT/LD kids. We loved his time there. The high school GT/LD also offered a resource class, but AP classes were not co-taught - MCPS cannot staff all the available courses of high school.
This may not be the right choice if your child is bored to tears with the "regular" non-magnet advanced curriculum. It was enough of a challenge for my son, though. He graduated witha high GPA and a dozen AP classes.
Please look at this and inquire:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/enriched/gtld
In practice, it meant being able to access any class at North Bethesda MS and Walter Johnson HS. At the middle school level, the classes were co-taught, and there was a dedicated resource class just for the GT/LD kids. We loved his time there. The high school GT/LD also offered a resource class, but AP classes were not co-taught - MCPS cannot staff all the available courses of high school.
This may not be the right choice if your child is bored to tears with the "regular" non-magnet advanced curriculum. It was enough of a challenge for my son, though. He graduated witha high GPA and a dozen AP classes.
Please look at this and inquire:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/enriched/gtld
Anonymous
08/22/2024 17:12
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is a problem unique to 2E kids. MCPS doesn't serve kids with disabilities well. I say this as the both the parent of a 2E kid, and as a special educator who specializes in kids with ID.
I'm also an mcps educator with a 2e kid and it has been hellish trying to get their needs met
I'm not disagreeing that it can be very hard. I'm saying that MCPS routinely forces kids with ID into segregated classroom models where rates of abuse are alarmingly high, and where all the research shows they don't learn as much as they would in general education. So, the idea that there's some unique donut hole where 2e kids are the only ones who don't get appropriate services is wrong.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 16:59
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is a problem unique to 2E kids. MCPS doesn't serve kids with disabilities well. I say this as the both the parent of a 2E kid, and as a special educator who specializes in kids with ID.
I'm also an mcps educator with a 2e kid and it has been hellish trying to get their needs met
Anonymous
08/22/2024 16:15
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
I don't think this is a problem unique to 2E kids. MCPS doesn't serve kids with disabilities well. I say this as the both the parent of a 2E kid, and as a special educator who specializes in kids with ID.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 16:12
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Yes. 2 more years and then dual enrollment at MC. 11th grade can’t come fast enough. The “support” my kid needs is less noise and less chaos in the classroom. That “need” can only be met by a fewer number of kids in the class. That’s not really an option in MCPS. Bring on 15-18 student CC classes!
Anonymous
08/22/2024 11:33
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
It’s a big problem for some kids. I teach in FCPS CSS, and we have kids that are very bright but really need a therapeutic setting. If we send them to a high school that meets their emotional needs, the curriculum is very basic to get most of their kids graduated. In general, you have to manage the mental health needs first, but it is tough.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 11:29
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
This our experience too, both for parents, but kid in a private.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 10:54
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
What supports does your child need? There's no federal entitlement to gifted programming and most students with disabilities are in mainstream/gen ed classes with supports.
Anonymous
08/22/2024 10:52
Subject: Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole
Anyone else feel like there is a donut hole for 2e kids in public school in the DMV?
We’re in MoCo and the few programs available for 2es at or above grade level aren’t working for my kid. We know so many others in the same boat — too smart but needs lots of support.
Non-public isn’t better. Either it’s at grade level with kids with significant behavior problems or below grade level.
Anyone else see this? Was it always like this or have programs been cut? Anyone find a great solution?
I’m a 2e and back in the dark ages (90s) in a suburb of a major city - we had gifted programs in school, enrichment, a small cohort that traveled together and support. Here it’s mainstream in a class of 28 kids or bust with hit or miss on services…. Gifted is a lottery…
We’re in MoCo and the few programs available for 2es at or above grade level aren’t working for my kid. We know so many others in the same boat — too smart but needs lots of support.
Non-public isn’t better. Either it’s at grade level with kids with significant behavior problems or below grade level.
Anyone else see this? Was it always like this or have programs been cut? Anyone find a great solution?
I’m a 2e and back in the dark ages (90s) in a suburb of a major city - we had gifted programs in school, enrichment, a small cohort that traveled together and support. Here it’s mainstream in a class of 28 kids or bust with hit or miss on services…. Gifted is a lottery…