Test scores are a better equalizer than GPA.

Anonymous wrote:Weird hijack but I wish my DC could submit test scores without junior year grades. With test scores in mid 1500s, DC is an excellent candidate, but got 3 Bs and a B- this year in IB classes.

Hmmm. What’s the story behind those grades?

Setting aside the admissions game and the desire to get into a “better” school, which do you honestly think more accurately reflects your DC’s ability - their test score or their recent grades? Not to be rude, but there’s obviously quite a disconnect there. They tell two very different stories.

NP. The piece about test score matching is so interesting to me.

I’ve always dismissed the idea that test scores were a legit predictor of college performance. I’ve viewed them more as an indicator of a kid’s ability to excel at standardized tests, plus their access/commitment to good test prep. (I say this as someone who had excellent test scores but struggled at my top-tier college (probably due to lack of preparation at my relatively easy HS) and then excelled in grad school (no doubt due to the rigor of my college experience.))

So … as DC builds their list of schools, maybe we should be paying closer attention to where their SAT scores fall in the distribution for each schoo? Not just to try to predict admissions, but also to consider fit and college experience. What do others think? DC will still apply to reaches, of course. But if they end up accepted somewhere where their SAT is at the lower end of the range, that may be an indicator of their fit/success at that school. (I’m thinking about college grades but also about other opportunities - their connections with classmates and professors, extracurriculars and internships etc.)

Thoughts? Others’ experiences with this?

Weird hijack but I wish my DC could submit test scores without junior year grades. With test scores in mid 1500s, DC is an excellent candidate, but got 3 Bs and a B- this year in IB classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

OP here. Thanks for sharing about her experience. My DD is planning on applying test optional, too. She is not aiming as high though potentially test score mismatched as well.

What is MBB?

+1

*hasn’t

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

Test scores matter. Many Ivies now require them again for reasons like this. They truly do correlate to achievement in college the studies they conducted demonstrate. My kid had a 35 ACT end of sophomore year and was done testing. The Ivy hadn’t been harder than private HS, in some cases easier.

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

Wow, that was me 20 years ago down to MB&B. I desperately wanted to change majors because my science (curved) grades were abysmal but my art history grades were truly excellent. My parents refused to contribute their share if I switched majors and financial aid was far less generous back then, so I felt stuck.

A kid who is majoring in mb&b would have no trouble changing majors even junior year and taking 6 credits/semester to catch up. Please help your DD consider it.

-Yale early 2000s alum and not a good fit at the school

The difference between a high 1300s and 1500s SAT likely shows up in sophistication of writing and speed of absorbing quantitative concepts. That would put one at a disadvantage for taking tests and writing papers in many types of classes.

I've also noticed that people at the 700+ SAT level don't understand why it's hard for people to to score that high. They don't really get how people didn't internalize algebra, etc. So there's not always sympathy to be found among peers.

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

What was her hook, to get in?

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

Was the work legit too hard / too much or is it just stress and anxiety?

A big problem for me was that high school was so easy that I didn’t have to work hard, and I didn’t really know how to work hard when I got to college. But your DD must have worked hard in HS to get into Yale TO.

And let’s not forget, Yale thought she was capable of succeeding at Yale…

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

The ones who are struggling at my kid’s ivy are the TO kids. They admit it to their closer friends. One is on academic probation its rough. TO was a failed experiment. My DC’s feel bad for the ones who can’t keep up, well below means.

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

OP here. Thanks for sharing about her experience. My DD is planning on applying test optional, too. She is not aiming as high though potentially test score mismatched as well.

What is MBB?

I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

…do you think they would have done better at a different school? Anyone feel like their student overshot and should have attended a target rather than a reach?

Of course academic struggles could also be due to partying too much, mental health issues, athletic commitments, picking a bad-fit major, size of classes, etc.

Knowing what you know now, would you advise your student differently?