Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

If you think that letters of recommendation are essentially pre-generated forms filled with a list of accomplishments provided by the student and every student who asks is entitled to one, what is even the point of having them? The system you're describing is just checking a meaningless box, not providing any kind of useful information to an admissions committee.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.

See, the thing is that the teacher is doing you a favor in declining to write a rec if they can’t write a good one. These are anonymous, and the teacher could very well write a negative one to avoid confrontations with parents like you when they try to politely decline. The sensible thing is to stick with teachers who you know can write a positive rec, not try to bully any teacher into writing one. You don’t want a letter of rec from a teacher who doesn’t think they can provide a glowing one.

For sure, and I appreciate the amount of work and thought teachers are clearly putting into these! It is clearly a labor of love.

I’m a DP, and it is also discouraging for me to hear how hard it must be for kids who have made mistakes to get recommendation letters. The letters are a key required component of applications, and it sounds like they may be challenging for many students to get. I have a kid with Bs and Cs, was once the class clown, and I am sure has used his phone in class. He’s grown a lot in the past couple years, but he’s got a way to go. He is also earnest, kind, and participates enthusiastically in discussion, so he does have teachers who know him and have offered to write his letters. But he could be the same kid and also shy and cranky and not have anyone who’d do that for him, and that seems unfair. Not criticizing teachers a bit - just observing that this phase of life is hard for kids who mature late, or who aren’t high achievers.

Well, I can assure you that none of the teenagers are perfect. None of them. They all have their moments and all have done crazy things.

But part of what guidance counselors will talk to them about is thinking carefully about who to ask to write a letter of rec. I decline anyone for whom I can’t write something helpful, but I definitely have colleagues who have no problem writing and submitting a negative letter of rec. I think it is unethical to do that, but then again, I’ve seen colleagues do that after respectfully declining to write one, only for the parent to complain. It’s like choosing references for a job: you want a supervisor who knows you well and will say good things about you, right? High school kids have multiple people to consider and ask. And the guidance counselor will write one as well. I am sure your son has some teachers who will be happy to write a letter for him.

One of the students for whom I am writing a letter of rec had a D in my class in 10th grade. The next year, he was a different person. Kids change. We all understand that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.

See, the thing is that the teacher is doing you a favor in declining to write a rec if they can’t write a good one. These are anonymous, and the teacher could very well write a negative one to avoid confrontations with parents like you when they try to politely decline. The sensible thing is to stick with teachers who you know can write a positive rec, not try to bully any teacher into writing one. You don’t want a letter of rec from a teacher who doesn’t think they can provide a glowing one.

For sure, and I appreciate the amount of work and thought teachers are clearly putting into these! It is clearly a labor of love.

I’m a DP, and it is also discouraging for me to hear how hard it must be for kids who have made mistakes to get recommendation letters. The letters are a key required component of applications, and it sounds like they may be challenging for many students to get. I have a kid with Bs and Cs, was once the class clown, and I am sure has used his phone in class. He’s grown a lot in the past couple years, but he’s got a way to go. He is also earnest, kind, and participates enthusiastically in discussion, so he does have teachers who know him and have offered to write his letters. But he could be the same kid and also shy and cranky and not have anyone who’d do that for him, and that seems unfair. Not criticizing teachers a bit - just observing that this phase of life is hard for kids who mature late, or who aren’t high achievers.

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I am writing recs for a few C students who scored 2 on the AP exam for my class. They worked hard, improved a lot from where they began, were polite and diligent in class, didn’t cheat, cut corners, or coast. I am happy to do this. It isn’t just the A students for me. But again, I can’t write 100+ recs each year, and using a template to try and do so would be harmful to all. Even our guidance counselors understand and support this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I DO draft each rec from scratch. They are very clear that this is what is needed: detailed, show that you know the student, not cut-and-paste. A neutral or cut-and-paste letter of rec is not useful at best, damning at worst. You really don’t know how this works.

And to add to my pp here, I am sometime contacts by universities to ask further questions or for clarification about a student. This past spring I was contacts by Wellesley and Chicago about students for whom I had submitted recs. They do take these seriously.

Anonymous wrote:If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.

See, the thing is that the teacher is doing you a favor in declining to write a rec if they can’t write a good one. These are anonymous, and the teacher could very well write a negative one to avoid confrontations with parents like you when they try to politely decline. The sensible thing is to stick with teachers who you know can write a positive rec, not try to bully any teacher into writing one. You don’t want a letter of rec from a teacher who doesn’t think they can provide a glowing one.

Anonymous wrote:So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I DO draft each rec from scratch. They are very clear that this is what is needed: detailed, show that you know the student, not cut-and-paste. A neutral or cut-and-paste letter of rec is not useful at best, damning at worst. You really don’t know how this works.

If my child could not obtain recommendations for college I would contact the principal, the superintendent, and the school board. This is a basic duty and the idea that teachers can pick and choose has civil rights implications.

So how are B+ or even average students to obtain recommendations? You can ask the students to prepare a list of accomplishments, and I’m sure you have a template for recommendations. Ridiculous to try to put forward the notion that you are drafting each recommendation from scratch. Do your job.

I agree with the teachers above. There has to be a limit.

Letters take over an hour each to write since I don’t revise old letters or use templates. I am not given time during the school year to get these done, so I write them over my summer. Last year I wrote close to 50. This is over a week of unpaid work, so it really is a gift of my time to students.

I’m happy to do it, but this is why I have to set limits. I won’t write for students who request letters late, have cheated, or are constantly on technology. I don’t have a grade requirements, because I know a student can work hard for a B while another can breeze to an A.

I see nothing wrong with this.

I simply cannot write a thoughtful, detailed rec for every student who asks because there is no time. I do it case by case, and will be doing a few for people who scored 2s on the AP Lang exam, but these kids worked hard and did show significant growth. I give my classes a timeline and tell them that anyone who wants a letter if rec needs to see me privately to ask, and it must be done by a certain date so that I have time to work on it. I do write thoughtful, detailed recs.

However, I refuse to write one for any student who has been caught cheating in my class or anyone else’s class, and I won’t write one for any student who has ever had a parent contact me to attempt to have a grade changed, or any student who pleaded for a “bump” in grade.

We all have to draw the line somewhere and say no to some kids. I do not think you understand how many weekend hours these take.

If they didn’t have a limit they might be writing over 100 recommendations.

Students just signup in naviance for a recommendation and then don’t even bother to talk to me about it. Really rude from a teacher perspective.

My personal rule is that if you use your phone in class too much I will refuse to write a recommendation. Repeated lateness, behavior, grades all affect my interest in writing a recommendation or giving retakes. I want to see sustained effort and ability. Anything short means no recommendation.

*Perhaps she takes some 4s but not definitely not all.

My child is at a high performing school and it appears that a core teacher think English or Math only writes “elite” students college recommendations. How common is this? It appears she only recommends students who score 5s on the AP exam and lets students know after AP exam results whether she will recommend them.