Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 15:09     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
My kid is taking DE English. He already has three AP classes so that seemed like enough on his plate. The DE English definitely was reviewed as no harder than honors English so between honors and DE that seemed like a good place to choose DE. He’ll maybe get free college credit and maybe just have a good experience with a more college style class.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 13:48     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why would you take DE English? Just do AP. It’s the standard accepted choice that will keep your options open.


OP here. I have absolutely no idea which is why I am asking. Where I am in Loudoun, both AP and DE get the 1.0 grade bump. A lot of BTDT parents recommend DE because you get 6 credits (3 per semester) vs. 3 credits with AP, and you don't have to take (and score well on) the AP exam. Most of these kids seem to go to non UVA/WM Virginia state schools. Maybe that is why.

But as I was sort of gathering, people still view AP as "more rigorous." But I was confused because so many parents seem to push DE. At least for now, my daughter wants to remain on the "most rigorous" path to keep her options open. She took 2 APs this year and got A's but obviously we don't have her test scores yet (but will soon.)

Thanks all.

First bolded comment has also been our experience.

Our non-DMV HS has a variety of AP and DE classes (as well as IB). The answer on “rigor” for us is “it depends on the instructor.” All the DE and IB instructors have special certifications — but even that doesn’t guarantee rigor or success on an exam. The DE credits are real at most public universities (even OOS). Most of them have their equivalents on their websites so it’s easy to get a general idea is whether a particular course will transfer in.

Our anecdotal experience has been that IB was the most “work” (and often tedious or “busy” work), DE classes had sufficient intensity but the instruction was the most variable based on the course and instructor, and AP was filled with the most pressure (fast pace, lots of material, anxiety over test results to actually receive credit which was also variable based on actual grade and what the higher ed institution and intended major would accept). For example, prospective engineering students either got no credit at all or had to score 4/5 for an AP Calc while someone seeking an English degree could slide in that math credit with just a 3.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 11:53     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Top tier colleges don't give credit for DE.



Top tier schools also don’t give credit for AP.


This. Very hard to get a lot of AP credits at top schools (not saying impossible).

Also I think what you take depends on the kids goals and schools. DE transfers well at VA schools, for example. A kid I know had almost a semester under his belt due to DE.

As for rigor, honestly, I’m just sick of hearing about it. AP is hard. DE is hard. It’s a spectrum of what is harder for each person. This idea you have to take all college AP classes in HS is something we’ve largely opted out of. It’s so idiotic.


+1 to all of this.

What are your child’s realistic college goals?
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 11:46     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Top tier colleges don't give credit for DE.



Top tier schools also don’t give credit for AP.


This. Very hard to get a lot of AP credits at top schools (not saying impossible).

Also I think what you take depends on the kids goals and schools. DE transfers well at VA schools, for example. A kid I know had almost a semester under his belt due to DE.

As for rigor, honestly, I’m just sick of hearing about it. AP is hard. DE is hard. It’s a spectrum of what is harder for each person. This idea you have to take all college AP classes in HS is something we’ve largely opted out of. It’s so idiotic.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 11:36     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:Top tier colleges don't give credit for DE.



Top tier schools also don’t give credit for AP.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 11:27     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:Why would you take DE English? Just do AP. It’s the standard accepted choice that will keep your options open.


OP here. I have absolutely no idea which is why I am asking. Where I am in Loudoun, both AP and DE get the 1.0 grade bump. A lot of BTDT parents recommend DE because you get 6 credits (3 per semester) vs. 3 credits with AP, and you don't have to take (and score well on) the AP exam. Most of these kids seem to go to non UVA/WM Virginia state schools. Maybe that is why.

But as I was sort of gathering, people still view AP as "more rigorous." But I was confused because so many parents seem to push DE. At least for now, my daughter wants to remain on the "most rigorous" path to keep her options open. She took 2 APs this year and got A's but obviously we don't have her test scores yet (but will soon.)

Thanks all.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 11:00     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:Take the highest level of AP at your school. Once you run out of those, see if DE is an option. Ex:student gets a 5 on AP Calc BC (the highest math offered at their HS) as a junior and takes Multivariable at a local college sr yr.

This.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 10:33     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Why would you take DE English? Just do AP. It’s the standard accepted choice that will keep your options open.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 10:32     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Take the highest level of AP at your school. Once you run out of those, see if DE is an option. Ex:student gets a 5 on AP Calc BC (the highest math offered at their HS) as a junior and takes Multivariable at a local college sr yr.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 10:25     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Top tier colleges don't give credit for DE.

Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 10:11     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
At our local HS, AP is considered more rigorous. The kids, counselors, and colleges all know it. In my DD's AP Lang & comp class, students that did not earn an A were recommended for DE Literature while students who earned A were recommended for AP Lit.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 09:47     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I also grew up in VA, but not this area and we did not have any options for DE and limited options for AP. Basically, if you were a generic "honors kid" you took all available APs because there were so few. There really weren't choices for the path, beyond what elective you wanted to take. (We also only had 6 blocks so that was limiting too.)

Fast forward and our oldest is going into junior year. I'm so confused about AP vs DE. Is AP considered more rigorous? It seems a lot of parents we know of older kids are pushing DE because "you get 6 credits instead of 3" but it also seems like the kids attending the most rigorous colleges still mostly do AP.

We mostly allowed DD to choose her courses for next year, and she selected all APs and no DEs (where applicable) so I guess we will see how that goes but can someone give me a straight answer on this? What is the point of offering both types?


In Virginia, if the subject has an AP then that is more rigorous than DE. Case in point, Calculus: There are options for DE versions of 1st and 2nd semester calculus at one of the "known" public magnets. There is also AP calcAB and BC. There 5 or 6 math paths at this test-in competitive high school magnet and the the top TWO tracks have AP Calc BC (one has it as a senior, the highest one has BC as a junior followed by DE vector/multi Calculus as a senior). In the latter case, there is no non-DE for multi, so DE is "top" . The lower (#3 and 4) math tracks have various paths that include DE for Calc 1 and Calc2, equivalent to AB and BC. Path 5 does not ever take calc. It is hard but possible to get into UVA in state (for non-stem) from the #3, third highest math path that includes DE calc. Almost all admits come from paths #1 and 2. For Ivies/T10, Math path #1 is practically required, plus all the other top rigor(AP Chem not DE), but #2 sometimes works. Math path 1 and 2 constitute over 1/4 of the school: it is a huge group. None of this is secret: it is obvious from 10th grade who the smartest kids in the school are, and they all get pushed into track 1 and track 2. UVA always says they do not have quotas, but they take kids from the equivalent of math path 3 at smaller non-magnet publics all the time, especially schools where it is the #1 path.
Know the high school options and have your kid go to a high school where they can stand out as one of the smarter ones, not where they will be average to above, if you want in-state William&Mary, UVA or higher.


Thanks. I guess I should have clarified I was more asking about English and the history options. She is scheduled to take AP Calc AB her junior year. She was debating DE in English and USH but ultimately decided to do the AP options of those. She is also taking AP Bio and Physics H.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 09:09     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
Anonymous wrote:I also grew up in VA, but not this area and we did not have any options for DE and limited options for AP. Basically, if you were a generic "honors kid" you took all available APs because there were so few. There really weren't choices for the path, beyond what elective you wanted to take. (We also only had 6 blocks so that was limiting too.)

Fast forward and our oldest is going into junior year. I'm so confused about AP vs DE. Is AP considered more rigorous? It seems a lot of parents we know of older kids are pushing DE because "you get 6 credits instead of 3" but it also seems like the kids attending the most rigorous colleges still mostly do AP.

We mostly allowed DD to choose her courses for next year, and she selected all APs and no DEs (where applicable) so I guess we will see how that goes but can someone give me a straight answer on this? What is the point of offering both types?


In Virginia, if the subject has an AP then that is more rigorous than DE. Case in point, Calculus: There are options for DE versions of 1st and 2nd semester calculus at one of the "known" public magnets. There is also AP calcAB and BC. There 5 or 6 math paths at this test-in competitive high school magnet and the the top TWO tracks have AP Calc BC (one has it as a senior, the highest one has BC as a junior followed by DE vector/multi Calculus as a senior). In the latter case, there is no non-DE for multi, so DE is "top" . The lower (#3 and 4) math tracks have various paths that include DE for Calc 1 and Calc2, equivalent to AB and BC. Path 5 does not ever take calc. It is hard but possible to get into UVA in state (for non-stem) from the #3, third highest math path that includes DE calc. Almost all admits come from paths #1 and 2. For Ivies/T10, Math path #1 is practically required, plus all the other top rigor(AP Chem not DE), but #2 sometimes works. Math path 1 and 2 constitute over 1/4 of the school: it is a huge group. None of this is secret: it is obvious from 10th grade who the smartest kids in the school are, and they all get pushed into track 1 and track 2. UVA always says they do not have quotas, but they take kids from the equivalent of math path 3 at smaller non-magnet publics all the time, especially schools where it is the #1 path.
Know the high school options and have your kid go to a high school where they can stand out as one of the smarter ones, not where they will be average to above, if you want in-state William&Mary, UVA or higher.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 08:55     Subject: Re:I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
AP is overseen by the College Board.

DE is overseen by your local community college.

Rigor varies.
Anonymous
Post 07/03/2024 08:36     Subject: I'm STILL confused about AP vs. DE (in Virginia)
I also grew up in VA, but not this area and we did not have any options for DE and limited options for AP. Basically, if you were a generic "honors kid" you took all available APs because there were so few. There really weren't choices for the path, beyond what elective you wanted to take. (We also only had 6 blocks so that was limiting too.)

Fast forward and our oldest is going into junior year. I'm so confused about AP vs DE. Is AP considered more rigorous? It seems a lot of parents we know of older kids are pushing DE because "you get 6 credits instead of 3" but it also seems like the kids attending the most rigorous colleges still mostly do AP.

We mostly allowed DD to choose her courses for next year, and she selected all APs and no DEs (where applicable) so I guess we will see how that goes but can someone give me a straight answer on this? What is the point of offering both types?