Anonymous wrote:Program like Swim with Beth plus club if you really want to improve. But kid still needs natural talent.

This. I have two swimmers. Both have been swimming year round since 6. Same practice schedule. Same coaches. Same love of swimming. Child A puts minimal effort into practice and goes to all stars/championship meets/has A-AA times. Child B works their butt off and barely makes it to A meets.

Anonymous wrote:Program like Swim with Beth plus club if you really want to improve. But kid still needs natural talent.

I think there is some natural talent involve, but I also think some kids are more teachable than others. Some kids take instruction better than others and because of that they can improve based on feedback. Caring also matters, if a kid really cares and wants to improve they will listen better and worn on form corrections.

I definitely know kids who swim for not the best clubs but still have incredible technique due to natural ability. I also know kids who swim for top clubs and coaches, and take a lot of private lessons and still look like they are fighting with the water.

There are so many factors here to address your questions:

1. A goal of placing at meets: Are you in Division 1 or Division 13? When my child was five and we were on a different team, we were in Division 11 or 12. Because she was naturally talented, started swimming on summer team at four (B meets), and began a year-round developmental program at five, she was winning races at age five. But if we had been in D1, 2, 3, or on a team with a robust bench of 8Us, she would not have swum in A meets at five or six. The thing that helped her improve and learn to love the sport young was being on a team with so few 8Us that they had to put her in A meets.

2. You are absolutely right that stroke mechanics matter. I have coached in several developmental programs, and SwimSmart or Swim with Beth used to be excellent choices. It’s been many years, though, and instructors change, so be sure to investigate before signing up.

3. How much do your children love swimming? My child consumes every practice, preferring practice to meets. She loves the challenge of drills and tinkering with technique (she’s ten). If your children love swimming (and not just the non-swimming or awards parts of summer swim), then try out for a team. (You mention Norman something, and I am unfamiliar with that so you may be in MD or DC. If you are in VA, there are several low-lane volume entry-level practice groups across the clubs.)

Program like Swim with Beth plus club if you really want to improve. But kid still needs natural talent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When younger- stroke mechanics program. Technique can make a huge difference.

Then swimming at least 2 days a week in year round clubs and actually doing the meets. Meets matter. That is where you learn to really push and do do things like turns at full race pace, which make all the difference in summer swim.

Can you actually name the program? We've tried a bunch of local programs to get to this point and many were total rubbish (looking at you Norman Swim where no instruction occured). We've even tried a year of the developmental program of a club team and it was pretty terrible--parents on the team agree and say it gets better when you get to the full team. I'm running out of patience for driving my kid to weekly practices that aren't actually good.

My kids have done 2 years of Norman. That’s where they learned flip turns. However it is more cardio / endurance than stroke instruction. We know kids who mix AAC or Awim Farm with 1 day of Norman. These are kids who still play other sports and aren’t ready to go all-in on swimming.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When younger- stroke mechanics program. Technique can make a huge difference.

Then swimming at least 2 days a week in year round clubs and actually doing the meets. Meets matter. That is where you learn to really push and do do things like turns at full race pace, which make all the difference in summer swim.

Can you actually name the program? We've tried a bunch of local programs to get to this point and many were total rubbish (looking at you Norman Swim where no instruction occured). We've even tried a year of the developmental program of a club team and it was pretty terrible--parents on the team agree and say it gets better when you get to the full team. I'm running out of patience for driving my kid to weekly practices that aren't actually good.

My kids did stroke mechanics with machine, Audrey moore site. Then around age 8 moved to the 2 day a week program.

How old are your kids and where’s your general location?

Anonymous wrote:Do private lessons as much as you can with junior coaches this summer. That’s the cheapest private lesson option.

In 2024-25, do a developmental program like Swim with Beth or Swim Smart. If you can do that in tandem with an entry program (eg, FISH, some of the NCAP sites, but don’t do Makos — waaaayyyy too many kids in lanes), that would be ideal.

Our summer pool doesn't allow private lessons or we'd do that.

Anonymous wrote:Do private lessons as much as you can with junior coaches this summer. That’s the cheapest private lesson option.

In 2024-25, do a developmental program like Swim with Beth or Swim Smart. If you can do that in tandem with an entry program (eg, FISH, some of the NCAP sites, but don’t do Makos — waaaayyyy too many kids in lanes), that would be ideal.

And, yes, if they want to swim 2-3 days per week, try out for a team. Nothing will make them stronger or better like swimming club, but you have to know they are ready. It is nothing like summer swim. Depending on their age, the warm up right out of the gate is 200 free.

Do private lessons as much as you can with junior coaches this summer. That’s the cheapest private lesson option.

In 2024-25, do a developmental program like Swim with Beth or Swim Smart. If you can do that in tandem with an entry program (eg, FISH, some of the NCAP sites, but don’t do Makos — waaaayyyy too many kids in lanes), that would be ideal.

Swimming year round made a huge difference. Mine started club swim this past January and she’s doing A meets. She’s not the fastest but she’s in the top 3 for her age group.

Anonymous wrote:When younger- stroke mechanics program. Technique can make a huge difference.

Then swimming at least 2 days a week in year round clubs and actually doing the meets. Meets matter. That is where you learn to really push and do do things like turns at full race pace, which make all the difference in summer swim.

Can you actually name the program? We've tried a bunch of local programs to get to this point and many were total rubbish (looking at you Norman Swim where no instruction occured). We've even tried a year of the developmental program of a club team and it was pretty terrible--parents on the team agree and say it gets better when you get to the full team. I'm running out of patience for driving my kid to weekly practices that aren't actually good.

When younger- stroke mechanics program. Technique can make a huge difference.

Then swimming at least 2 days a week in year round clubs and actually doing the meets. Meets matter. That is where you learn to really push and do do things like turns at full race pace, which make all the difference in summer swim.

After first full year of club swim. Kids who are only swimming in the summer are unlikely to make that leap, though there are exceptions.

I have two kids doing summer swim team. Both are consistently legal in all four strokes, but neither is particularly fast. If you have an older swimmer, what made the biggest difference in your swimmer going from a basic level of competency (everyone starts here) to being fast or fast-ish? I'm not talking about Olympics, but being competitive and placing at meets. How old were they when they made that jump?