Anonymous
06/18/2024 16:44
Subject: Managing International Employees
Anonymous wrote:We're an international family living in DC, in a very international circle: scientists at NIH and FDA, lawyers at the World Bank and IMF. 20 years ago, my husband and I arrived fresh from foreign universities into the US
I've seen none of the problems you mention, even with newly arrived hires, because we all know the system we're arriving into and the expectations of said system.
I wonder what field you're in, OP, that you're having such problems. Is your hiring process a little fuzzy, does the job description and career path need to be rewritten? A lot of job openings have a paragraph about future career paths in the company, and this could solve your problem... as in, if questions are asked, you can refer back to it.
Even if they come from countries where everyone gets promoted inexorably due to years on the job, not achievement (my father comes from such a country!), it doesn't make sense that several of your hires today would expect the same treatment in the US. No one I know has that level of ignorance. So I wonder if it isn't something to do with the way you hire and describe the work.
Well the World Bank and NIH are not the real world.
My private company you are hired to do your job. There are no future career paths or set profession. When an opening happens you can apply and if qualified can interview and if better the external candidates can get the job.
The most common path to a big promotion at work is to quit. Get promoted elsewhere and return.
Which is how it works most places. Churn is ok.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 15:33
Subject: Managing International Employees
I recently read The Culture Map by Erin Meyer (I joined an international company and they recommended it during our orientation). It doesn’t answer this problem specifically but might help with starting cross-cultural communications.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 15:32
Subject: Managing International Employees
We're an international family living in DC, in a very international circle: scientists at NIH and FDA, lawyers at the World Bank and IMF. 20 years ago, my husband and I arrived fresh from foreign universities into the US
I've seen none of the problems you mention, even with newly arrived hires, because we all know the system we're arriving into and the expectations of said system.
I wonder what field you're in, OP, that you're having such problems. Is your hiring process a little fuzzy, does the job description and career path need to be rewritten? A lot of job openings have a paragraph about future career paths in the company, and this could solve your problem... as in, if questions are asked, you can refer back to it.
Even if they come from countries where everyone gets promoted inexorably due to years on the job, not achievement (my father comes from such a country!), it doesn't make sense that several of your hires today would expect the same treatment in the US. No one I know has that level of ignorance. So I wonder if it isn't something to do with the way you hire and describe the work.
I've seen none of the problems you mention, even with newly arrived hires, because we all know the system we're arriving into and the expectations of said system.
I wonder what field you're in, OP, that you're having such problems. Is your hiring process a little fuzzy, does the job description and career path need to be rewritten? A lot of job openings have a paragraph about future career paths in the company, and this could solve your problem... as in, if questions are asked, you can refer back to it.
Even if they come from countries where everyone gets promoted inexorably due to years on the job, not achievement (my father comes from such a country!), it doesn't make sense that several of your hires today would expect the same treatment in the US. No one I know has that level of ignorance. So I wonder if it isn't something to do with the way you hire and describe the work.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 15:28
Subject: Managing International Employees
Anonymous wrote:In the developing country where I worked for several years, the level of corruption in their university system was INSANE. There were so many people who simply purchased degrees. College profs were super low paid and cheating was widespread and accepted/expected in their schools.
So many people would have one set of credentials on their CV, but their actual skillset was entirely mismatched/lacking, or at times ridiculous/absent in relation to what was claimed on the CV and in interview. It was/is a huge problem.
I'm sure people will now jump in to scold me, but it is what it is.
OP, have you encountered any of this yet?
DP but yes I encounter it enough to be annoying. I work with my staff on the regular to get them to promote their work, present ideas, offer up and INITIATE solutions. Many are passive and just wait to be instructed. That's what the universities churn out. Do xyx. Ok you did it, and... you did it right. There's no independence of thought.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 15:19
Subject: Managing International Employees
Anonymous wrote:We've had some similar hires from different countries, and have really had to sit them down and explain that it's their job performance which matters the most, apart from the basic degree / certification they possess. And there is no set promotion schedule, and usually you have to compete for open positions which are promotions.
They really don't seem to believe our manager and I until their first evaluation. Those who get on an improvement plan are usually shocked.
OP that is what I am getting. Which I felt as odd as one staff at 24 has a 40 year old boss who reports to a 62 year old boss.
Pretty much if no one quits and 62 year old retires, he gets 40 year old role. Assuming both can be promoted.
Or 40 person quits they apply that job.
Or they just quit themselves to get promotion elsewhere.
The concept of set progressions I did not understand. Even more when not based on work but education and certifications.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 15:13
Subject: Managing International Employees
In the developing country where I worked for several years, the level of corruption in their university system was INSANE. There were so many people who simply purchased degrees. College profs were super low paid and cheating was widespread and accepted/expected in their schools.
So many people would have one set of credentials on their CV, but their actual skillset was entirely mismatched/lacking, or at times ridiculous/absent in relation to what was claimed on the CV and in interview. It was/is a huge problem.
I'm sure people will now jump in to scold me, but it is what it is.
OP, have you encountered any of this yet?
So many people would have one set of credentials on their CV, but their actual skillset was entirely mismatched/lacking, or at times ridiculous/absent in relation to what was claimed on the CV and in interview. It was/is a huge problem.
I'm sure people will now jump in to scold me, but it is what it is.
OP, have you encountered any of this yet?
Anonymous
06/18/2024 15:04
Subject: Managing International Employees
We've had some similar hires from different countries, and have really had to sit them down and explain that it's their job performance which matters the most, apart from the basic degree / certification they possess. And there is no set promotion schedule, and usually you have to compete for open positions which are promotions.
They really don't seem to believe our manager and I until their first evaluation. Those who get on an improvement plan are usually shocked.
They really don't seem to believe our manager and I until their first evaluation. Those who get on an improvement plan are usually shocked.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 14:40
Subject: Managing International Employees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:At work we have been hiring a lot of foreign born and educated staff brand new to the United States. A new thing to us.
Often they come with Graduate degrees, MBAs, multiple certifications from their country. They are usually younger and this is first job in USA.
My question is they seems to ask about career progression almost immediately. They seem to equate degrees and certifications with promotions. They also ask for training classes and certifications from conferences etc. as if that will help career.
My question is how do promotions work in countries such as Africa for example?
My response to them learn your job, do a good job, get to know company, offer some value added suggestions, show you are ready to be promoted and attend some internal events and do internal networking fell on deaf ears.
I had to add there is no set progression. You do a great job and someone above you leaves we can put in for promotion. Or we justify the role is now bigger based on added responsibilities and promote. But your certifications, degrees, training classes really have nothing to do with promotions since you already have a masters degree.
Is it really that much different in other countries? I had two push this question in months 2-6.
"Countries such as Africa"? Maybe this isn't the right role for you...
+1
Stop, it was a misprint. I have little advice to offer you OP, but it does seem annoying to be asked this so explicity.
Anonymous
06/18/2024 14:33
Subject: Managing International Employees
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:At work we have been hiring a lot of foreign born and educated staff brand new to the United States. A new thing to us.
Often they come with Graduate degrees, MBAs, multiple certifications from their country. They are usually younger and this is first job in USA.
My question is they seems to ask about career progression almost immediately. They seem to equate degrees and certifications with promotions. They also ask for training classes and certifications from conferences etc. as if that will help career.
My question is how do promotions work in countries such as Africa for example?
My response to them learn your job, do a good job, get to know company, offer some value added suggestions, show you are ready to be promoted and attend some internal events and do internal networking fell on deaf ears.
I had to add there is no set progression. You do a great job and someone above you leaves we can put in for promotion. Or we justify the role is now bigger based on added responsibilities and promote. But your certifications, degrees, training classes really have nothing to do with promotions since you already have a masters degree.
Is it really that much different in other countries? I had two push this question in months 2-6.
"Countries such as Africa"? Maybe this isn't the right role for you...
+1
Anonymous
06/18/2024 14:32
Subject: Managing International Employees
Anonymous wrote:At work we have been hiring a lot of foreign born and educated staff brand new to the United States. A new thing to us.
Often they come with Graduate degrees, MBAs, multiple certifications from their country. They are usually younger and this is first job in USA.
My question is they seems to ask about career progression almost immediately. They seem to equate degrees and certifications with promotions. They also ask for training classes and certifications from conferences etc. as if that will help career.
My question is how do promotions work in countries such as Africa for example?
My response to them learn your job, do a good job, get to know company, offer some value added suggestions, show you are ready to be promoted and attend some internal events and do internal networking fell on deaf ears.
I had to add there is no set progression. You do a great job and someone above you leaves we can put in for promotion. Or we justify the role is now bigger based on added responsibilities and promote. But your certifications, degrees, training classes really have nothing to do with promotions since you already have a masters degree.
Is it really that much different in other countries? I had two push this question in months 2-6.
"Countries such as Africa"? Maybe this isn't the right role for you...
Anonymous
06/18/2024 13:01
Subject: Managing International Employees
At work we have been hiring a lot of foreign born and educated staff brand new to the United States. A new thing to us.
Often they come with Graduate degrees, MBAs, multiple certifications from their country. They are usually younger and this is first job in USA.
My question is they seems to ask about career progression almost immediately. They seem to equate degrees and certifications with promotions. They also ask for training classes and certifications from conferences etc. as if that will help career.
My question is how do promotions work in countries such as Africa for example?
My response to them learn your job, do a good job, get to know company, offer some value added suggestions, show you are ready to be promoted and attend some internal events and do internal networking fell on deaf ears.
I had to add there is no set progression. You do a great job and someone above you leaves we can put in for promotion. Or we justify the role is now bigger based on added responsibilities and promote. But your certifications, degrees, training classes really have nothing to do with promotions since you already have a masters degree.
Is it really that much different in other countries? I had two push this question in months 2-6.
Often they come with Graduate degrees, MBAs, multiple certifications from their country. They are usually younger and this is first job in USA.
My question is they seems to ask about career progression almost immediately. They seem to equate degrees and certifications with promotions. They also ask for training classes and certifications from conferences etc. as if that will help career.
My question is how do promotions work in countries such as Africa for example?
My response to them learn your job, do a good job, get to know company, offer some value added suggestions, show you are ready to be promoted and attend some internal events and do internal networking fell on deaf ears.
I had to add there is no set progression. You do a great job and someone above you leaves we can put in for promotion. Or we justify the role is now bigger based on added responsibilities and promote. But your certifications, degrees, training classes really have nothing to do with promotions since you already have a masters degree.
Is it really that much different in other countries? I had two push this question in months 2-6.