Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 13:53     Subject: Re:AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you might be interested in page 66 of the AAP equity report from 4 years ago.
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

It shows the mean, min, max, and standard deviation of test scores of kids admitted to AAP.


OP here. This is exactly the kind of info I like. It's odd to see that for white kids the range for NNAT is wider, with children scoring as low as 70 being AAP eligible (for Asians it's 93).

I'm not sure why people say it's the "least reliable" metric? Naglieri is a respected researcher, and on the face of it, it seems like a reasonable test of nonverbal intelligence. What are the complaints specifically? I found this wiki article on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naglieri_Nonverbal_Ability_Test) and it mentioned that there is more variabilty than expected and more high scores than expected, but without more context it's hard to interpret those claims.


It is the least comprehensive, since it's only testing one sliver of kids' intelligence. I wouldn't call it the "least reliable" in general, but it is in the way FCPS is using it. It is given in 1st grade, and kids can mature quite a bit between the NNAT and the CogAT testing windows. It's on a computer, so impulsive clicking can be a problem, especially when kids have been trained to do that in their iready testing. It's also likely the first timed test any of the kids have encountered.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 13:25     Subject: Re:AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:OP, you might be interested in page 66 of the AAP equity report from 4 years ago.
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

It shows the mean, min, max, and standard deviation of test scores of kids admitted to AAP.


OP here. This is exactly the kind of info I like. It's odd to see that for white kids the range for NNAT is wider, with children scoring as low as 70 being AAP eligible (for Asians it's 93).

I'm not sure why people say it's the "least reliable" metric? Naglieri is a respected researcher, and on the face of it, it seems like a reasonable test of nonverbal intelligence. What are the complaints specifically? I found this wiki article on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naglieri_Nonverbal_Ability_Test) and it mentioned that there is more variabilty than expected and more high scores than expected, but without more context it's hard to interpret those claims.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 12:46     Subject: Re:AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:OP, you might be interested in page 66 of the AAP equity report from 4 years ago.
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

It shows the mean, min, max, and standard deviation of test scores of kids admitted to AAP.


Thanks for this information. I've always wondered about seeing the data! Just never knew where to find it.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 12:05     Subject: Re:AAP still possible?
OP, you might be interested in page 66 of the AAP equity report from 4 years ago.
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf

It shows the mean, min, max, and standard deviation of test scores of kids admitted to AAP.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 11:29     Subject: AAP still possible?
My child got a 70 on nnat. They didn’t feel like taking a test that day. They are in full time.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 11:24     Subject: AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No, your child still has a shot. As other posters have mentioned, the CoGAT is weighted more heavily.

FWIW my child was admitted on the first round with a much lower NNAT score. Their CoGAT was much higher than the NNAT—not sure why but it all worked out and my child is doing well in AAP.


Assuming this is correct, what "weight" is applied to the CogAT versus the NNAT?


Nobody cares about the NNAT. they use it to average w cogat to determine local “pool” for automatic portfolio creation, but otherwise it’s the least reliable score.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 11:21     Subject: AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:No, your child still has a shot. As other posters have mentioned, the CoGAT is weighted more heavily.

FWIW my child was admitted on the first round with a much lower NNAT score. Their CoGAT was much higher than the NNAT—not sure why but it all worked out and my child is doing well in AAP.


Assuming this is correct, what "weight" is applied to the CogAT versus the NNAT?
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 09:48     Subject: AAP still possible?
Who knows... Each year the holistic approach seems to emphasize something else, keeping ahead of the people who tend to "game" the system... NNAT used to be a throw-away score years ago, and only used more locally to help determine Level II services. Now it's part of the formula to determine in-pool scores.

Your NNAT score is not bad. If you're in a high SES, you might be at a disadvantage in comparison with other students though. If the COGAT is higher, it shows growth.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 09:44     Subject: AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:DC scored 124 on NNAT and is in an ok elementary school. On iReady in March DC was in 99th percentile for math and slightly lower for reading (91%) (an outlier in phonics/phonological awareness but did not do so well on reading comp). Not sure what the latest iReady will look like. Has mostly 4s on report card but a few 3s.

I was surprised by DC's NNAT score because we did a few (literally 3) practice tests and DC did well. So we did not do anything else.


You talking about your 1st graders? Make sure he get a good Cogat and iReadys this Oct. one outlier is fine, make sure it is not two. BTW only second grade iReady are reported to AAP committee, 1st grade AAP doesn't matter except for your own reference.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 09:37     Subject: AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you asking if your 1st grader is already knocked out from AAP?

The answer is No. The Cogat is more heavily weighted than the NNAT. And that NNAT score fine.


Thanks. Just based on what I've been reading in this forum, I thought the score was pretty low and would count against DC.

Also isn't the Cogat score averaged with the NNAT when evaluating a student for AAP?


It's only averaged for the in-pool designation. The committee will look at the NNAT, each of the CogAT subscores, the iready percentiles, the HOPE rating, the work samples, and the parent questionnaire holistically. The NNAT is perhaps the least important part of the packet.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 09:31     Subject: AAP still possible?
No, your child still has a shot. As other posters have mentioned, the CoGAT is weighted more heavily.

FWIW my child was admitted on the first round with a much lower NNAT score. Their CoGAT was much higher than the NNAT—not sure why but it all worked out and my child is doing well in AAP.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 08:49     Subject: AAP still possible?
Anonymous wrote:Are you asking if your 1st grader is already knocked out from AAP?

The answer is No. The Cogat is more heavily weighted than the NNAT. And that NNAT score fine.


Thanks. Just based on what I've been reading in this forum, I thought the score was pretty low and would count against DC.

Also isn't the Cogat score averaged with the NNAT when evaluating a student for AAP?
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 08:46     Subject: AAP still possible?
Are you asking if your 1st grader is already knocked out from AAP?

The answer is No. The Cogat is more heavily weighted than the NNAT. And that NNAT score fine.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 08:41     Subject: AAP still possible?
Even if they bomb their cogats, you can apply in the next year based on iready and SOL scores. That should be enough if the teacher supports it.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2024 08:31     Subject: AAP still possible?
DC scored 124 on NNAT and is in an ok elementary school. On iReady in March DC was in 99th percentile for math and slightly lower for reading (91%) (an outlier in phonics/phonological awareness but did not do so well on reading comp). Not sure what the latest iReady will look like. Has mostly 4s on report card but a few 3s.

I was surprised by DC's NNAT score because we did a few (literally 3) practice tests and DC did well. So we did not do anything else.