No reason to take AB and BC for top, strong math students. He should take BC as a junior and then MV/Linear as a senior.

Fascinating to me that APS (?) is directing kids to take Calculus AB junior year followed by BC senior year. Am I reading your post correctly? Why? BC is an offshoot of Calculus AB since all of the topics in Calculus AB are also included in Calculus BC, plus some. It’s basically taking the class over again plus some additional material. I view this as an admission that they are accelerating too many kids. Kids get to junior year and aren’t ready for BC Calc so this is the solution?

We are at YHS which doesn’t require AB first. We were told that intensified pre calc (which maybe is AP now, that wasn’t available until this year) prepared students for BC. My son took BC this year as a junior and he worked hard and had a tutor for tests but has maintained an A and felt very prepared for the AP test. FYI, at YHS at least, you have to get a 4 or 5 on the BC AP test to love to multivariable as a senior. My daughter was not doing STEM in college so she did AB as a senior (was one year behind son in math pathway, algebra as an 8th grader).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

The switch to AP Precalc will make BC Calc harder next year. The standard approach for teaching BC is to accelerate kids steadily from Algebra 2 onward so that the latter half of precalc is spent learning introductory calculus to avoid the scenario described above where BC is rushed. However, APS has put students into AP Precalc which has slower pacing, which will leave insufficient time to introduce calculus concepts for students going to BC. So, look for BC to feel even more rushed next year. If your DC opts for BC next year, they may want to study intro calc on their own over the summer so BC feels less rushed.

Not in FCPS but our AP Precalc teacher said just the opposite - that the AP Precalc curriculum goes faster and further and my student would be well prepared for BC Calc next year (and likely bored in AB). But could be a difference in teaching approach.

The AP Precalc exam is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2, so that covers less precalc content than a typical precalc class. There is an optional fourth AP Precalc unit (not covered on the AP Precalc exam) that can be done that makes the course similar to a standard precalc class. In addition to that, BC students need to start introductory calc in precalc to avoid an overly rushed pace in BC.

The wildcard is how teachers implement AP Precalc so the suggestion that a PP gave to check with your DC's teacher is sound advice. Some long-time precalc teachers may continue to teach intensified precalc and cover some intro calc concepts to prepare students for BC. That would be an optimal outcome for students headed to BC. However, if the teacher largely follows the pacing of AP Precalc and covers the fourth optional unit post-AP exam, there will be insufficient time devoted to the optional unit and certainly not enough time to cover intro calc concepts well.

The other wrinkle is that AP Precalc emphasizes modeling and includes regressions which are not needed for BC. The more time a teacher spends on that, the less time available to cover topics needed for BC. The old intensified precalc was a better match for students heading to BC than AP Precalc.

Anonymous wrote:Have you asked the current Math teacher, who has likely seen these scenarios play out literally hundreds, if not thousands, of times, what they recommend?

My understanding is that this math teacher only recommends AB, but based on our experience with APS, the teachers routinely "aim low" versus "aim high" in their student recommendations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

The switch to AP Precalc will make BC Calc harder next year. The standard approach for teaching BC is to accelerate kids steadily from Algebra 2 onward so that the latter half of precalc is spent learning introductory calculus to avoid the scenario described above where BC is rushed. However, APS has put students into AP Precalc which has slower pacing, which will leave insufficient time to introduce calculus concepts for students going to BC. So, look for BC to feel even more rushed next year. If your DC opts for BC next year, they may want to study intro calc on their own over the summer so BC feels less rushed.

Not in FCPS but our AP Precalc teacher said just the opposite - that the AP Precalc curriculum goes faster and further and my student would be well prepared for BC Calc next year (and likely bored in AB). But could be a difference in teaching approach.

Have you asked the current Math teacher, who has likely seen these scenarios play out literally hundreds, if not thousands, of times, what they recommend?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

Thank you. This is very helpful feedback and advice. We had heard that you need to take the highest level math sequence available at your school for the competitive engineering programs (which, at APS, is MV/Linear Alegebra), but you make very good points. The reason I think he is even remotely struggling with this decision is because, in our experience, APS routinely directs students to easier routes/pathways versus the more challenging routes/pathways. For example, after taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade and getting a very high A, his teacher/counselor recommended that he take Algebra 3 instead of Pre-calc in 10th grade! I told him to ignore his teacher/counselor and sign up for Pre-Calc because their advice was absurd. This was obviously the right decision. He would have been bored to tears in Algebra 3. APS also discouraged him from taking too many higher-level courses/APs his sophomore year but he took them anyway and knocked it out of the park. Junior year will definitely be harder but he has the bandwidth for more work. He did not feel like he had to work very hard this year.

When I looked at the stats a few years ago very, very few students took the MV/Linear Algebra class. They are not the only ones who get into competitive engineering programs.

Just tried to find the report and I don't think they produce it anymore. It showed number of students enrolled in each courses by high school.

Some W-L kids take IB math courses that cover those topics though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

The switch to AP Precalc will make BC Calc harder next year. The standard approach for teaching BC is to accelerate kids steadily from Algebra 2 onward so that the latter half of precalc is spent learning introductory calculus to avoid the scenario described above where BC is rushed. However, APS has put students into AP Precalc which has slower pacing, which will leave insufficient time to introduce calculus concepts for students going to BC. So, look for BC to feel even more rushed next year. If your DC opts for BC next year, they may want to study intro calc on their own over the summer so BC feels less rushed.

I'm concerned about this too. Maybe they will teach them the missing part of the curriculum now that the AP exam in over?

I have an APS senior. All the strongest math students take AP Calc BC junior year. Then the ones headed to STEM majors in college take MV Calc AP senior year, while some of the others decide to pursue other things like AP Stats.

The decision really depends on which track the kid is on. For many years, the class before calc was either pre calc or pre calc intensified. The intensified class prepared the students to go right into AP Calc BC by teaching most of Calc A, and then I think they probably did a quick review in the beginning of Calc BC.

Now I am hoping the same is true with the new PreCalcAP curriculum, as I have a younger kid now on this track who also wants to take BC.

This is my experience in APS, I'm sure other schools differ. But the question is whether the track your kid is on has prepared them to jump into Calc BC or not. So ask that question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

Thank you. This is very helpful feedback and advice. We had heard that you need to take the highest level math sequence available at your school for the competitive engineering programs (which, at APS, is MV/Linear Alegebra), but you make very good points. The reason I think he is even remotely struggling with this decision is because, in our experience, APS routinely directs students to easier routes/pathways versus the more challenging routes/pathways. For example, after taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade and getting a very high A, his teacher/counselor recommended that he take Algebra 3 instead of Pre-calc in 10th grade! I told him to ignore his teacher/counselor and sign up for Pre-Calc because their advice was absurd. This was obviously the right decision. He would have been bored to tears in Algebra 3. APS also discouraged him from taking too many higher-level courses/APs his sophomore year but he took them anyway and knocked it out of the park. Junior year will definitely be harder but he has the bandwidth for more work. He did not feel like he had to work very hard this year.

When I looked at the stats a few years ago very, very few students took the MV/Linear Algebra class. They are not the only ones who get into competitive engineering programs.

Just tried to find the report and I don't think they produce it anymore. It showed number of students enrolled in each courses by high school.

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

The switch to AP Precalc will make BC Calc harder next year. The standard approach for teaching BC is to accelerate kids steadily from Algebra 2 onward so that the latter half of precalc is spent learning introductory calculus to avoid the scenario described above where BC is rushed. However, APS has put students into AP Precalc which has slower pacing, which will leave insufficient time to introduce calculus concepts for students going to BC. So, look for BC to feel even more rushed next year. If your DC opts for BC next year, they may want to study intro calc on their own over the summer so BC feels less rushed.

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

Thank you. This is very helpful feedback and advice. We had heard that you need to take the highest level math sequence available at your school for the competitive engineering programs (which, at APS, is MV/Linear Alegebra), but you make very good points. The reason I think he is even remotely struggling with this decision is because, in our experience, APS routinely directs students to easier routes/pathways versus the more challenging routes/pathways. For example, after taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade and getting a very high A, his teacher/counselor recommended that he take Algebra 3 instead of Pre-calc in 10th grade! I told him to ignore his teacher/counselor and sign up for Pre-Calc because their advice was absurd. This was obviously the right decision. He would have been bored to tears in Algebra 3. APS also discouraged him from taking too many higher-level courses/APs his sophomore year but he took them anyway and knocked it out of the park. Junior year will definitely be harder but he has the bandwidth for more work. He did not feel like he had to work very hard this year.

He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

I have a child struggling with whether to take AB or BC calculus as a junior in APS. At their school, most kids take these classes sequentially - AB before BC. My understanding is that at other schools, kids often pick one or the other. He is interested in engineering schools and feels like he needs to graduate with something higher than BC. He is currently one of the very top students in his pre-calculus class and has close to a 100%. Thoughts? He is worried he may be in over his head with BC Calc as a junior if most of the other students had taken AB calc first.