Anonymous wrote:This is not the case with mother-enmeshed men. They always put their mother's needs about anyone else's, including their own.

*above

This is not the case with mother-enmeshed men. They always put their mother's needs about anyone else's, including their own.

Anonymous wrote:Many women keep closer ties with their families of origin than women do. Some mothers try to resist their sons pulling away but the same dynamic doesn’t exist with the daughters because the daughters are always there. The old saying rings true: a daughter is a daughter for life; a son is a son until he takes a wife.

Except it's completely different in Asian or eastern cultures. Women were raised to leave their families and join a new family under the direction of their MIL. Men were sons for life.

Anonymous wrote:Women are, traditionally and culturally, raised to be "pleasers". They are socialized that they are responsible for relationship building/maintenance, so they work hard at it.

Men are raised with fewer of those expectations (culturally they get other burdens to carry about breadwinning, stoicism, etc...). So they don't step in to quite the same roles as naturally.

All people can make personal changes in any of these dynamics once aware of them.

Came here to post the same thing. Even my progressive, trail-blazing parents raised my brother and I differently. Brother was not expected to do chores, and his sole focus was to be school and career. Me, on the other hand, was expected to iron my dad's shirts, do all kinds of chores, do decently well in school, but not to worry too much about a career as surely getting married to a successful man was all that was important. Women are conditioned to hold the family units together while men are told their world is much bigger.

I disagree with these reasons as there are so many of your examples that are completely flipped in our case

Many women keep closer ties with their families of origin than women do. Some mothers try to resist their sons pulling away but the same dynamic doesn’t exist with the daughters because the daughters are always there. The old saying rings true: a daughter is a daughter for life; a son is a son until he takes a wife.

Women are, traditionally and culturally, raised to be "pleasers". They are socialized that they are responsible for relationship building/maintenance, so they work hard at it.

Men are raised with fewer of those expectations (culturally they get other burdens to carry about breadwinning, stoicism, etc...). So they don't step in to quite the same roles as naturally.

All people can make personal changes in any of these dynamics once aware of them.

Anonymous wrote:Sexism plays a huge role in this. I adore my mother, we have a great relationship and in general she's pretty easy to get along with. But occasionally she's so casually sexist it drives me nut. She just really believes women are the social glue that hold everything together, and that men just need to show up.

I agree. I'm in my 30s and often find myself feeling that way too. Like I feel like if I go to all this work to plan a holiday or extended family vacation (something most men don't initiate), men better show up and shut up. Within my marriage dh is an equal partner and I know he likes the activities I plan.

It works against me though with my inlaws. They just expect dh and by extension his whole family and me to just show up. MIL and his sisters plan it all. Sometimes the dates/activities don't work for us, but there's not much we can do about it.

Sexism plays a huge role in this. I adore my mother, we have a great relationship and in general she's pretty easy to get along with. But occasionally she's so casually sexist it drives me nut. She just really believes women are the social glue that hold everything together, and that men just need to show up.

I am female and only had a sister, so I don't have a brother to compare to. I love my mom and mom and I both go out of our way to please each other. But I'm not treated like trash, there's no guilt tripping and if my mom acts crazy- I tell her to knock it off (there have been times when she has acted crazy, mostly with regards to my husband's responsibilities and hers. She wanted to spend the night in the hospital with me instead of him for instance). But I personally wanted a best friend type relationship with my mom and I have that. I don't think DH ever wanted that. He is best friends more with his dad.

I find that men let their moms walk all over their wives and they never say no.

Anonymous wrote:Your point is that men are inherently more selfish in relationships? This won’t shock DCUM.

If that is what you got out of my post, it would seem to be rooted in an anger towards men. Of course, you may have also been being sarcastic and pointing out that you feel there are anti-male sentiments here pervasively. Anyway, I hope moms will answer.

My experience with my two brothers and my adult son is that they do pretty much what you said, but I think the reason is they can't actually handle close relationships with two women at once, meaning mom and wife. So they rightly choose wife. Mom has to just deal with it.

I have also seen that when these guys are not attached they are much closer to their moms, calling more often, visiting more often, chatting more often. That reinforces my theory.

Anonymous wrote:Your point is that men are inherently more selfish in relationships? This won’t shock DCUM.

I don't think that is the point here. I think his point is well taken re: the human dynamic. Same happens with couples. Stay more aloof and the other person in the equation frequently will try harder. Try hard, and people take advantage.

Your point is that men are inherently more selfish in relationships? This won’t shock DCUM.

There are so, so many stories about the strife between mothers and what I assume are daughters here.
As a man, I have always been perplexed by the push and pull that seems to exist between daughters and moms. It's like they both thrive on making each other happy, and yet also thrive on making each other miserable.
I have two brothers, a sister, and a brother in law, and we have something in common: while we don't ignore our mothers and we love them, we give them attention on our terms not theirs.
You know what the result is? For the men, our moms want to please us. They want more attention then we are willing to give, but they have come to accept that we aren't going to call every day. We aren't going to return texts with lightning speed. We aren't going to cave when our mothers try to guilt trip us.
My wife and sister, on the other hand, go out of their way to please our their respective mothers. They shower them with affection, they cater to their whims, they indulge them even when they are nasty, and they wind up wondering why our moms seem to crave the male's affection more than theirs.
I wonder if anyone else sees this dynamic and, even moreso, if moms with both sons and daughters feel the same way about their boys