Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

Trump said on Monday that he took abortion off the table as a political issue when he described it as a states issue. Underlying this is the actual point. He's running away from it. It's an electoral disaster for whoever has to own it. Democrats have been trouncing Republicans on this for the past two years. A few weeks ago, a special election is Alabama was flipped by the Democrats at +25 in a district won by Trump by a couple points. Arizona threw gasoline on the fire with this. Women, moderates, independents across the country see that Arizona's GOP SC made a 19th century law the law of the land.

What kills me is all Kavanaugh and Barrett had to do was literally “stare decisis”. They could have still had their conservative USSC, and kept winning elections.

Abortion can be approached two ways:

1) as an issue of values. Some people consider abortion to be murder and therefore are compelled to prohibit it. Others consider this an issue of privacy and rights for women and support abortion rights. For both groups, this is a matter of right and wrong.

2) as a political issue which which can be supported or opposed by various political strategies and can be used itself as part of a political strategy to motivate voters.

The Arizona ruling showed where these two approaches to abortion clash. The ruling is great for the pro-life values crowd, but politically it is very dangerous because it is far out of the mainstream. As such, it is a gift to Democrats and puts Republicans in a difficult position of trying to thread the needle of supporting prohibitions on abortion, but just not this prohibition.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Please, let's stay on topic. Let's not go off on a tangent about pro-life vs anti-life.

It sounds to me like Trump was trying to stop abortion from being an issue in November, but Arizona's Supreme Court ensured that it will be an issue, in Arizona and beyond, due to the strictness of the law there.

In other words, they would have been happier if this ruling had come about after November, when Trump would have potentially already been elected. Then it wouldn't affect the electability of Republicans throughout the country.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate you helping me connect the dots on this one.

Yep. I think you’ve nailed it.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

Interesting right?
I think it’s about timing maybe? They wanted Trump in office before these rulings and laws.
They want to remake more of the judiciary and gerrymander more of the country’s statehouses. Republicans were supposed to only be pushing for 15 week bans right now, and denying that they want a total ban and to criminalize procedure. But the inmates are running the asylum.
The Republican Party has been taken over by fringe crazies.
So here we are.

OP here. Please, let's stay on topic. Let's not go off on a tangent about pro-life vs anti-life.

It sounds to me like Trump was trying to stop abortion from being an issue in November, but Arizona's Supreme Court ensured that it will be an issue, in Arizona and beyond, due to the strictness of the law there.

In other words, they would have been happier if this ruling had come about after November, when Trump would have potentially already been elected. Then it wouldn't affect the electability of Republicans throughout the country.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate you helping me connect the dots on this one.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

They got what they wanted, but they didn’t want it so close to the election. Reason being that a total ban is deeply unpopular, and is going to drive turnout in a way that will negatively impact Republicans on the ballot. Given the unreasonableness of this (not only the lack of exceptions, but the fact that this is based on a law from before Arizona was even a state), it is going to impact turnout not only in Arizona, but nationwide. People are getting a really good idea of what Republican control looks like, and by and large, they don’t like it.

Many people are figuring out that the very scary word “ABORTiON” means healthcare for women. 50% of the population will likely need some form of care regarding reproduction in their lifetime.
And that law compromises their care.
And women are such selfish b—-ches they will choose to save their own lives over border security.
What a bunch of whores.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

Trump said on Monday that he took abortion off the table as a political issue when he described it as a states issue. Underlying this is the actual point. He's running away from it. It's an electoral disaster for whoever has to own it. Democrats have been trouncing Republicans on this for the past two years. A few weeks ago, a special election is Alabama was flipped by the Democrats at +25 in a district won by Trump by a couple points. Arizona threw gasoline on the fire with this. Women, moderates, independents across the country see that Arizona's GOP SC made a 19th century law the law of the land.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

Political parties are combination of people. So the pro-life sec of the republican party is happy. The republican party as whole is unhappy they lost a issue to run on and have now motivated the opposition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

If by “they” you mean GOP, well then, yes. When has MAGA ever made sense?

Um, easy: border security. That’s what most of us care about, our basic safety, not getting an abortion.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

If by “they” you mean GOP, well then, yes. When has MAGA ever made sense?

Anonymous wrote:It's a near-total ban (no weeks). The only exception is to save a woman's life (but no doctor will take that on because of the potential criminal liability). It carries a sentence of 2-5 years in jail. It's as strict as you can get. It's also based on 19th century law before Arizona was a state. How to you politically spin that as having a serious conversation about abortion? As you say, it's also on the ballot so voters will come out in droves against this draconian law. Arizona was a battleground state. It isn't anymore. And this will reverberate across elections across the country.

This. People accept The South to be full of Bible thumping MAGA heads who hate women, but Arizona is supposed to be different. A true swing state and a lot of the Rs there are for low taxes, not the culture crap. Of course I’m being crass when describing the South to drive a point.

OP here. So they got what they wanted and are unhappy about it? Is that only because voters can undo it in November?

This is what I don't get: they got what they wanted! Are they upset that what they wanted is TOO strict?

Make it make sense.

It's a near-total ban (no weeks). The only exception is to save a woman's life (but no doctor will take that on because of the potential criminal liability). It carries a sentence of 2-5 years in jail. It's as strict as you can get. It's also based on 19th century law before Arizona was a state. How to you politically spin that as having a serious conversation about abortion? As you say, it's also on the ballot so voters will come out in droves against this draconian law. Arizona was a battleground state. It isn't anymore. And this will reverberate across elections across the country.

I understand that some people want abortion to be a states' rights issue. What I don't understand is why everyone (especially Republicans) are freaking out about the Arizona abortion ruling.

Is it that the ruling is very strict? I can't imagine that it's the strictest in the country, and anyway, it only applies to Arizona.

Is the fear that, when it comes to the ballot in November, Arizona's citizens will vote to allow abortion? Isn't that then STILL that state's rights issue?

How does the ruling upend Trump's statement that abortion is a states' rights issue?

I don't want to get into a debate about abortion. I really just want to understand why I keep reading that (per a headline I saw) "Arizona’s abortion ruling threatens to upend 2024 races".

Let's keep this simple and civil, please. TIA!