Anonymous
03/26/2024 23:18
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
I'm also a former economics professor, and I've worked with political scientists. Their field is becoming more quantitative, and you do need a good grounding in statistics to do research.
Math, in particular multivariate calculus and linear algebra, is the underpinning of most of the statistical algorithms that social scientists use. Someone with an undergrad degree might only encounter this level of work if they were writing a senior thesis project. They can certainly get away with just letting the computer do the work, but really understanding the statistics is what generally separates out the people who graduate with honors.
Additionally, most MPP programs, like, say, the Kennedy School, prefer applicants who have had calculus. This is often because calculus makes it easier to understand the required economic courses. Economics uses calculus equations to model behavior, because economists often want to know the rate of change of one variable with respect to another.
Tldr;
If your son takes econometrics, which is essentially economics statistics, he will stand out a bit from garden variety poly sci grads. Also, he can get away without taking multivariable calculus, but taking it will make statistics and economics easier to understand down the road.
Math, in particular multivariate calculus and linear algebra, is the underpinning of most of the statistical algorithms that social scientists use. Someone with an undergrad degree might only encounter this level of work if they were writing a senior thesis project. They can certainly get away with just letting the computer do the work, but really understanding the statistics is what generally separates out the people who graduate with honors.
Additionally, most MPP programs, like, say, the Kennedy School, prefer applicants who have had calculus. This is often because calculus makes it easier to understand the required economic courses. Economics uses calculus equations to model behavior, because economists often want to know the rate of change of one variable with respect to another.
Tldr;
If your son takes econometrics, which is essentially economics statistics, he will stand out a bit from garden variety poly sci grads. Also, he can get away without taking multivariable calculus, but taking it will make statistics and economics easier to understand down the road.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 22:57
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
I have an IR major at WM. She is required to take 5 Econ classes to get an IR degree: macro, micro, intermediate and advanced macro OR intro and advanced micro and comparative econ. Plus, research methods is also required. The Econ classes, in turn, have required a semester of stats, and she also ended up retaking Calc to help with the advanced Econ. And somewhere in there a semester of data science, which was helpful, but not required. This isn’t to minor in Econ or get a leg up. In fact, her second major is a Critical foreign language. This is just to get a basic IR the degree. So, that’s 8-9 semesters of quant heavy class work for the major.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 22:56
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DS is a second year college student and recently declared an international relations major (I would not be surprised if he winds up switching to political science because of the IR language requirement, and their true interest is international politics which major doesn't exist at their college).
I'm a lawyer and spouse is an accountant, and we don't have friends in the fields that may spin from these majors (to be honest I'm not even exactly sure which jobs those may be, but I'm trusting that DC will figure it out with help from the college career center). But everything I read and hear is that strong quantitative skills are what even the social science fields are looking for these days. At DC's college, there are very little quantitative requirements to satisfy these majors - I think poli sci and IR eac require one research based class (which is incorporated into a topical class, not even research in of itself as a class), and IR also requires a basic econ class. That's it.
DS is actually strong in math, he just doesn't love it so isn't interest in taking the classes. We're going to encourage him to build strong quantitative skills to make himself in either of these majors more marketable, but neither spouse nor I are sure what to advise. An economics minor is very light in quant based classes. His college doesn't have a statistics minor. I don't think I could ever convince DS to consider a math or comp sci minor (he has very little comp sci skills).
For those of you hiring grads in the IR and poli sci fields (political risk analysts, whatever these jobs are), what do you look for with respect to quant skills in your applicants? Specific majors/minors (if so, which ones), or proficiency in certain coding, or what elseAlso, can these skills be acquired via taking certain classes you consider "musts" (e.g., econometrics) vs needing certain majors/minors.
Thanks for any advice. We are suggesting DC discuss more with his advisor, but he did when he declared the major and the adviser didn't seem focused on quant skills at all (maybe b/c they were educated at a different time, and are in academic vs professional world?).
Your kid is gonna be going up against people who are graduating from programs like this:
https://sfs.georgetown.edu/academics/undergraduate/majors/ipol/
I would suggest your kid to major in econ and NOT polisci
IR/Polisci is not for lower tier school kids
I do appreciate everyone’s candor. I am a little thrown for DS’s sake of statements like these, I admit. DS is at a fine college but not Georgetown level, but wouldn’t he competing for jobs against Georgetown students no matter what his major is? Is your point that IR and poli sci are “soft” majors so where you got the degree matters more versus if he majored in comp sci anywhere? That’s disappointing to hear.
PS - Reading that SFS page, the IR major (whatever they call it) seems very pre-professional there (eg, they learn to write white papers and memos), and it definitely is not at DS’s college.
- OP
Anonymous
03/26/2024 22:46
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Anonymous wrote:He’ll pick up all the quant skills he needs when he attends IR/PP grad school like sais (if he can get in)
Real IR jobs in this town are indexed pretty heavily on prestige so the lower ranked the school your kid goes to, the more “hard skills” he needs to compete vs HYP/t20 grads
Or he needs to luck out and work for the right principal on a campaign like Tommy vietor
So to get this straight, your kid doesn’t have language skills and doesn’t want to take math classes.
the other option is they can get into a t6 law school
OP here. Wouldn’t DS need to work for at least a few years before entering an IR masters program? Financially
he will, at least
.
DS isn’t shying away from the language, he is in his 8th sem of Spanish now (he started at level 4) and will study in Chile in the fall, but he doesn’t want to take Spanish for the remainder of his semesters which I think he said means he won’t meet the language requirement for the IR major so it isn’t uncommon at his college for
students interested in IR who do not want to take foreign language every semester to instead major in poli sci or econ and focus on the int’l classes in those majors.
He also took Calc 1 and Calc 2 as a first year, but he wasn’t interested to move on to MV and Linear Algebra this year - that’s not uncommon for a non math major, I would think.
We just want him to have at least some “hard” skills to market himself with for jobs. We want DS to major in what appeals to him (spouse and I were pushed into pre-professional majors by each of our parents and don’t want to do the same), but he will need a job in a couple of years (and an internship next summer hopefully). I do agree with the professor, he’ll hopefully develop strong writing and analytical skills in an IR or poli sci major which are also very useful.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 22:11
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Sociology majors usually have a pretty solid foundation in statistics. I think it all depends on what your child wants to do when they get out though. Quant might not be their thing.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 22:02
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Anonymous wrote:DS is a second year college student and recently declared an international relations major (I would not be surprised if he winds up switching to political science because of the IR language requirement, and their true interest is international politics which major doesn't exist at their college).
I'm a lawyer and spouse is an accountant, and we don't have friends in the fields that may spin from these majors (to be honest I'm not even exactly sure which jobs those may be, but I'm trusting that DC will figure it out with help from the college career center). But everything I read and hear is that strong quantitative skills are what even the social science fields are looking for these days. At DC's college, there are very little quantitative requirements to satisfy these majors - I think poli sci and IR eac require one research based class (which is incorporated into a topical class, not even research in of itself as a class), and IR also requires a basic econ class. That's it.
DS is actually strong in math, he just doesn't love it so isn't interest in taking the classes. We're going to encourage him to build strong quantitative skills to make himself in either of these majors more marketable, but neither spouse nor I are sure what to advise. An economics minor is very light in quant based classes. His college doesn't have a statistics minor. I don't think I could ever convince DS to consider a math or comp sci minor (he has very little comp sci skills).
For those of you hiring grads in the IR and poli sci fields (political risk analysts, whatever these jobs are), what do you look for with respect to quant skills in your applicants? Specific majors/minors (if so, which ones), or proficiency in certain coding, or what else
Thanks for any advice. We are suggesting DC discuss more with his advisor, but he did when he declared the major and the adviser didn't seem focused on quant skills at all (maybe b/c they were educated at a different time, and are in academic vs professional world?).
Your kid is gonna be going up against people who are graduating from programs like this:
https://sfs.georgetown.edu/academics/undergraduate/majors/ipol/
I would suggest your kid to major in econ and NOT polisci
IR/Polisci is not for lower tier school kids
Anonymous
03/26/2024 21:56
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
He’ll pick up all the quant skills he needs when he attends IR/PP grad school like sais (if he can get in)
Real IR jobs in this town are indexed pretty heavily on prestige so the lower ranked the school your kid goes to, the more “hard skills” he needs to compete vs HYP/t20 grads
Or he needs to luck out and work for the right principal on a campaign like Tommy vietor
So to get this straight, your kid doesn’t have language skills and doesn’t want to take math classes.
the other option is they can get into a t6 law school
Real IR jobs in this town are indexed pretty heavily on prestige so the lower ranked the school your kid goes to, the more “hard skills” he needs to compete vs HYP/t20 grads
Or he needs to luck out and work for the right principal on a campaign like Tommy vietor
So to get this straight, your kid doesn’t have language skills and doesn’t want to take math classes.
the other option is they can get into a t6 law school
Anonymous
03/26/2024 21:30
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
If quant skills can readily be acquired on the job, then why do certain jobs look primarily for quant-based majors? I think the two PPs have out of date hiring experience. At my company your son wouldn’t get an interview with just a political science major. Your son needs to take whatever statistics and researched based classes are offered, taking some online coding classes in the summer, and maybe look at data science major requirements at other colleges and see what classes at his can try to replicate the major. I’m very surprised your son’s college doesn’t offer a statistics or data science major- even my dd’s liberal arts college does.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 20:45
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Completely agree with professor above.
Have him take a stats class - he doesn’t need the major/minor! And an Econ class.
Then he can look for an internship that will work well to build those skills.
Both DH and I are politics people. Both have advanced degrees with lots of quant requirements. But the things we use most every day are writing, public speaking, analysis, and EQ.
Have him take a stats class - he doesn’t need the major/minor! And an Econ class.
Then he can look for an internship that will work well to build those skills.
Both DH and I are politics people. Both have advanced degrees with lots of quant requirements. But the things we use most every day are writing, public speaking, analysis, and EQ.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 20:40
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
I’m an Econ professor - OP, I think you’re too focused on a minor or transcriptable credential. Few employers ask for transcripts. What they really care about is what a college grad can do. Statistics, data analysis, coding, writing and telling a succinct story are skills your child should aim to build. These skills can be developed through courses or research or internships. Skills learned through projects will stick, comparatively. Project based skills also make better interview fodder!
Anonymous
03/26/2024 20:22
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Op here. There is no statistics major or
minor at DC’s college. The data science major is within the school of engineering and is geared towards careers in engineering and hard sciences, and is a very rigorous/time consuming major comprised of engineering, math and hard sciences classes - DS is in the school of arts & sciences so there is no way as a second semester sophmore he could complete that major by graduation at this point (nor would he want to, I suspect).
There are a variety of classes just called Statistics, but one would not take two of them as they are Statistics for economics majors, Statistics for psych majors, etc, so you take the one that applies to your major.
So unfortunately just telling DS to take a lot of statistics and data science isn’t going to work.
Should I encourage math classes, and if so which ones?
There is a comp sci minor, but are the quant skills needed for IR/poli sci type jobs actual programming skills? His roommate is a comp sci major and told DS to just take an online coding class in R.
I don’t mean to shoot down suggestions, but DS can only work within what is offerred at his college.
minor at DC’s college. The data science major is within the school of engineering and is geared towards careers in engineering and hard sciences, and is a very rigorous/time consuming major comprised of engineering, math and hard sciences classes - DS is in the school of arts & sciences so there is no way as a second semester sophmore he could complete that major by graduation at this point (nor would he want to, I suspect).
There are a variety of classes just called Statistics, but one would not take two of them as they are Statistics for economics majors, Statistics for psych majors, etc, so you take the one that applies to your major.
So unfortunately just telling DS to take a lot of statistics and data science isn’t going to work.
Should I encourage math classes, and if so which ones?
There is a comp sci minor, but are the quant skills needed for IR/poli sci type jobs actual programming skills? His roommate is a comp sci major and told DS to just take an online coding class in R.
I don’t mean to shoot down suggestions, but DS can only work within what is offerred at his college.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 19:49
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Statistics! and maybe data science
Anonymous
03/26/2024 19:45
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Statistics both pure and applied (to a given field) is crucial. Yes, many social science programs have dispensed with statistics and it shows. The replication crisis in the social sciences is very real, and the chickens will eventually come home to roost. Only those with an understanding of math and statistics will be able to move these disciplines forward to coherence and respectability again.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 19:40
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
Whatever quant skills he can develop in college, the better. It is so hard to develop them on the job because it’s easier for employers to hire people already with these skills. I would definitely recommend statistics and some programming.
Anonymous
03/26/2024 19:25
Subject: what quantitative skills are needed for social sciences jobs (political science, IR)
DS is a second year college student and recently declared an international relations major (I would not be surprised if he winds up switching to political science because of the IR language requirement, and their true interest is international politics which major doesn't exist at their college).
I'm a lawyer and spouse is an accountant, and we don't have friends in the fields that may spin from these majors (to be honest I'm not even exactly sure which jobs those may be, but I'm trusting that DC will figure it out with help from the college career center). But everything I read and hear is that strong quantitative skills are what even the social science fields are looking for these days. At DC's college, there are very little quantitative requirements to satisfy these majors - I think poli sci and IR eac require one research based class (which is incorporated into a topical class, not even research in of itself as a class), and IR also requires a basic econ class. That's it.
DS is actually strong in math, he just doesn't love it so isn't interest in taking the classes. We're going to encourage him to build strong quantitative skills to make himself in either of these majors more marketable, but neither spouse nor I are sure what to advise. An economics minor is very light in quant based classes. His college doesn't have a statistics minor. I don't think I could ever convince DS to consider a math or comp sci minor (he has very little comp sci skills).
For those of you hiring grads in the IR and poli sci fields (political risk analysts, whatever these jobs are), what do you look for with respect to quant skills in your applicants? Specific majors/minors (if so, which ones), or proficiency in certain coding, or what else Also, can these skills be acquired via taking certain classes you consider "musts" (e.g., econometrics) vs needing certain majors/minors.
Thanks for any advice. We are suggesting DC discuss more with his advisor, but he did when he declared the major and the adviser didn't seem focused on quant skills at all (maybe b/c they were educated at a different time, and are in academic vs professional world?).
I'm a lawyer and spouse is an accountant, and we don't have friends in the fields that may spin from these majors (to be honest I'm not even exactly sure which jobs those may be, but I'm trusting that DC will figure it out with help from the college career center). But everything I read and hear is that strong quantitative skills are what even the social science fields are looking for these days. At DC's college, there are very little quantitative requirements to satisfy these majors - I think poli sci and IR eac require one research based class (which is incorporated into a topical class, not even research in of itself as a class), and IR also requires a basic econ class. That's it.
DS is actually strong in math, he just doesn't love it so isn't interest in taking the classes. We're going to encourage him to build strong quantitative skills to make himself in either of these majors more marketable, but neither spouse nor I are sure what to advise. An economics minor is very light in quant based classes. His college doesn't have a statistics minor. I don't think I could ever convince DS to consider a math or comp sci minor (he has very little comp sci skills).
For those of you hiring grads in the IR and poli sci fields (political risk analysts, whatever these jobs are), what do you look for with respect to quant skills in your applicants? Specific majors/minors (if so, which ones), or proficiency in certain coding, or what else
Also, can these skills be acquired via taking certain classes you consider "musts" (e.g., econometrics) vs needing certain majors/minors.
Thanks for any advice. We are suggesting DC discuss more with his advisor, but he did when he declared the major and the adviser didn't seem focused on quant skills at all (maybe b/c they were educated at a different time, and are in academic vs professional world?).