OP, I have a junior who will NOT make it to 3.0. I have a feeling she could be one of the 5-10% NOT to be accepted to Radford, ODU, Longwood, WVU, etc. I'll follow up a year from now!

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that graduation rates are really telling the "whole" story for these schools. Are the kids transferring to another ("better") university? For example, going from UMBC or Frostburg to U of Maryland?

I don't have evidence, but transfers out don't count in the statistics, so it's really hard to know what the "real" story is.

I agree. And they can also reflect more the individual student's financial situation, family challenges, etc. When filtering colleges in doing initial research for my kids, I focused on 1st year retention rate. That is a more immediate measure that indicates to me how well the school does with admitting kids who are able to do well there, that they have good freshmen supports, that kids are getting the culture they were expecting, etc. We aimed for at minimum an 85% retention rate.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that graduation rates are really telling the "whole" story for these schools. Are the kids transferring to another ("better") university? For example, going from UMBC or Frostburg to U of Maryland?

I don't have evidence, but transfers out don't count in the statistics, so it's really hard to know what the "real" story is.

And "better" is relative.

I found this illuminating:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/04/09/a-majority-of-u-s-colleges-admit-most-students-who-apply/

I don't think that graduation rates are really telling the "whole" story for these schools. Are the kids transferring to another ("better") university? For example, going from UMBC or Frostburg to U of Maryland?

I don't have evidence, but transfers out don't count in the statistics, so it's really hard to know what the "real" story is.

Anonymous wrote:Do these colleges also show stats regarding jobs and salaries upon graduation?

Whatever it is, it's bound to be better than no college at all.

State? You don't want to be throwing around a lot of money on OOS/private tuition at that tier.

If VA, I worked with a guy from Radford who was decently sharp. Not a bad business program for a school at that level.

Anonymous wrote:You say these schools are "lax," but another way to look at them is that they have capacity for all kinds of students.

George Mason University, for instance, had an acceptance rate of 90% last cycle, in part because they're growing.

This. For example, Arizona State has explicitly said their mission is to give all kinds of students opportunities so they want to be large and admit most applicants. As they put it, they want to be "measured not by whom it excludes, but by whom it includes and how they succeed"

Do these colleges also show stats regarding jobs and salaries upon graduation?

Op, pay attention to what they aren't good at - foreign language? math? They will want to consider their weaknesses when choosing a major in college (4 yr), and ahead of that, choosing a college. They will have plenty of options for college, but it's not just about getting-in, it's also about getting-out.

I use the word "college" when I really meant "university." Different colleges within a university will have much different admission/graduation requirements. Become familiar, especially with large state universities in various parts of the country. The College w/in the university matters.

Anonymous wrote:In addition to 4-year graduation rate, I would look at freshman/first year retention rate - or how many students return after their first year. I would look at their first-year/freshman-year curriculum and the support they have in place for student success. Basically if your student goes there, what will that first year be like for them.

+1 They can have better outcomes for some students than a community college because you are part of the on campus community and I think that can be helpful in peer influence and access to support resources.

In VA, both GMU and VCU have overall high admit rates (will be lower for some majors) but also high retention rates. In MD, a couple smaller schools with high admit rates/high retention are McDaniel (has a reputation of having good supports for students with learning disabilities) and Loyola Maryland.

You say these schools are "lax," but another way to look at them is that they have capacity for all kinds of students.

George Mason University, for instance, had an acceptance rate of 90% last cycle, in part because they're growing.

University of Kansas, Arizona State, New Mexico State, Gonzaga (lower acceptance rate but invited kids to send in a letter with lower GPAs).

In addition to 4-year graduation rate, I would look at freshman/first year retention rate - or how many students return after their first year. I would look at their first-year/freshman-year curriculum and the support they have in place for student success. Basically if your student goes there, what will that first year be like for them.

I didn't realize some schools were this lax. Our student is a current sophmore with a 2.75 GPA and did not do well on the PSAT. They are working on bringing up their GPA and we have no doubt they will land in the 3.0 range. In terms of course rigor, they are not planning on taking any AP courses until their senior year as long as they continue to do well.

Until today, we had assumed that our student would likely attend a regional university or a community college.

What are the advantages of these schools? What are red flags to look for with these schools beyond graduation rate?