Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:19
Subject: Re:Kids and “work before play”
Anonymous wrote:When mine were in ES, the rule was 1 hour of screentime on school days and they could choose when. And they had some chores and a bit of homework, including at least 30 min of reading. How they scheduled it was up to them.
When we struggled with them doing what was needed to get out in the mornings I made cards showing each task and that worked well. So we also did them for afterschool. The visual/tactile reminders cut down on my nagging.
I think your problem is it sounds like you are being very controlling about when they do things so they don't have space to make choices.
I went back and edited my own text (that I wrote on my own pc). Realized I didn’t include some important info about flexibility.
First, they can swap out a chore. If something else makes sense to them “mom I will clean your car out for you, can I do that instead of dishwasher duty?” Ok!
Also, more importantly, they don’t have to. They aren’t limited from play or freedom. But if they don’t have energy or don’t want to.. they just don’t get screens.
Last, man, we do have a good number of days we aren’t consistent and just let the kids do whatever. (Can’t tell if I’ll be criticized for “well you’re not consistent that’s why it doesn’t work!”). But really, we don’t do it every single day, without fail. Sometimes kids have worked really hard in their school day.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:18
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I believe in "work before play" but I think I have a totally different outlook/approach to you.
First off, we don't view screen time as "play time" and it's not something my kids are entitled to daily. They can watch screens, but they don't have iPads and screen time usually means sitting down to watch a TV show or movie. And those have a finite length. Sure, I might say "okay you can watch 4 episodes of Bluey" because those episodes are short. But the only time we let our kids camp out and just let the shows autoplay is if they are sick and need to be resting anyway. Otherwise it's "yes you can watch this one show." And that makes it easy to say they need to clean up their rooms or put away toys or finish homework before watching, because it's a discrete thing.
Yes they whine and complain sometimes when I say they need to finish homework or chores before playing (or watching TV, which again, I don't view as a play activity). Oh well. Kids whine sometimes. If they straight up refuse, then they don't get the play or screen reward, it's an easy built in consequence.
Sometimes they will resist doing the "work" because they are tired, and I can see that they are genuinely very tired. This most often happens in the afternoon or evening after a busy day of school or other activities. In those cases, I will sometimes acknowledge that they are reasonably worn out, and let them watch TV as a way to rest or relax. It still has a time limit on it (we never watch TV without a set time limit). And we might allow them to postpone certain chores until the next day if it's clear they need to rest and the chores aren't urgent. Or sometimes we'll help them complete the chore if they need some help. It's important to remember that kids often work really hard at school and they need breaks just like adults. If some nights we do takeout or put off the laundry because we're totally wiped out from work, we have to allow the kids to do that too. The work is the stuff we did all day, and sometimes you just need to come home and veg out a little to recover.
Bluey? Come back to us when you have a middle school kid. Even if you wait until 8th, the time will come when you have to actually deal with these issues.
OP has a kindergartener and a 3rd grader, as well as a middle schooler. This is also an issue with elementary kids and OP is obviously asking for those kids as well. I'd also argue that setting these expectations with younger kids can make it easier when they are older because the habits and boundaries are firmly in place as you begin to deal with issues like texting with friends and social media.
I'm the PP and I have a kid in 1st (who still watches Bluey) and a kid in 4th. The 4th grader mostly watches movies, not TV shows. Neither of my kids just watch YouTube on autoplay all day. If that's an issue you are dealing with in middle school, my suggestion is that you were too lax about screen time when they were younger.
Come back to us when you learn how to set limits and parent properly.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:15
Subject: Re:Kids and “work before play”
Anonymous wrote:But school is work. And a long day. I think kids need that veg time after school.
I agree with is but with DC(6, 9) we do not allow screens at this time. The can relax, play with toys, play outside, etc but in order to get and screens, the need to do home work first.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:14
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
Anonymous wrote:I believe in "work before play" but I think I have a totally different outlook/approach to you.
First off, we don't view screen time as "play time" and it's not something my kids are entitled to daily. They can watch screens, but they don't have iPads and screen time usually means sitting down to watch a TV show or movie. And those have a finite length. Sure, I might say "okay you can watch 4 episodes of Bluey" because those episodes are short. But the only time we let our kids camp out and just let the shows autoplay is if they are sick and need to be resting anyway. Otherwise it's "yes you can watch this one show." And that makes it easy to say they need to clean up their rooms or put away toys or finish homework before watching, because it's a discrete thing.
Yes they whine and complain sometimes when I say they need to finish homework or chores before playing (or watching TV, which again, I don't view as a play activity). Oh well. Kids whine sometimes. If they straight up refuse, then they don't get the play or screen reward, it's an easy built in consequence.
Sometimes they will resist doing the "work" because they are tired, and I can see that they are genuinely very tired. This most often happens in the afternoon or evening after a busy day of school or other activities. In those cases, I will sometimes acknowledge that they are reasonably worn out, and let them watch TV as a way to rest or relax. It still has a time limit on it (we never watch TV without a set time limit). And we might allow them to postpone certain chores until the next day if it's clear they need to rest and the chores aren't urgent. Or sometimes we'll help them complete the chore if they need some help. It's important to remember that kids often work really hard at school and they need breaks just like adults. If some nights we do takeout or put off the laundry because we're totally wiped out from work, we have to allow the kids to do that too. The work is the stuff we did all day, and sometimes you just need to come home and veg out a little to recover.
Bluey? Come back to us when you have a middle school kid. Even if you wait until 8th, the time will come when you have to actually deal with these issues.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:06
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
You have a routine. Snack, then homework.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:06
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
I believe in "work before play" but I think I have a totally different outlook/approach to you.
First off, we don't view screen time as "play time" and it's not something my kids are entitled to daily. They can watch screens, but they don't have iPads and screen time usually means sitting down to watch a TV show or movie. And those have a finite length. Sure, I might say "okay you can watch 4 episodes of Bluey" because those episodes are short. But the only time we let our kids camp out and just let the shows autoplay is if they are sick and need to be resting anyway. Otherwise it's "yes you can watch this one show." And that makes it easy to say they need to clean up their rooms or put away toys or finish homework before watching, because it's a discrete thing.
Yes they whine and complain sometimes when I say they need to finish homework or chores before playing (or watching TV, which again, I don't view as a play activity). Oh well. Kids whine sometimes. If they straight up refuse, then they don't get the play or screen reward, it's an easy built in consequence.
Sometimes they will resist doing the "work" because they are tired, and I can see that they are genuinely very tired. This most often happens in the afternoon or evening after a busy day of school or other activities. In those cases, I will sometimes acknowledge that they are reasonably worn out, and let them watch TV as a way to rest or relax. It still has a time limit on it (we never watch TV without a set time limit). And we might allow them to postpone certain chores until the next day if it's clear they need to rest and the chores aren't urgent. Or sometimes we'll help them complete the chore if they need some help. It's important to remember that kids often work really hard at school and they need breaks just like adults. If some nights we do takeout or put off the laundry because we're totally wiped out from work, we have to allow the kids to do that too. The work is the stuff we did all day, and sometimes you just need to come home and veg out a little to recover.
First off, we don't view screen time as "play time" and it's not something my kids are entitled to daily. They can watch screens, but they don't have iPads and screen time usually means sitting down to watch a TV show or movie. And those have a finite length. Sure, I might say "okay you can watch 4 episodes of Bluey" because those episodes are short. But the only time we let our kids camp out and just let the shows autoplay is if they are sick and need to be resting anyway. Otherwise it's "yes you can watch this one show." And that makes it easy to say they need to clean up their rooms or put away toys or finish homework before watching, because it's a discrete thing.
Yes they whine and complain sometimes when I say they need to finish homework or chores before playing (or watching TV, which again, I don't view as a play activity). Oh well. Kids whine sometimes. If they straight up refuse, then they don't get the play or screen reward, it's an easy built in consequence.
Sometimes they will resist doing the "work" because they are tired, and I can see that they are genuinely very tired. This most often happens in the afternoon or evening after a busy day of school or other activities. In those cases, I will sometimes acknowledge that they are reasonably worn out, and let them watch TV as a way to rest or relax. It still has a time limit on it (we never watch TV without a set time limit). And we might allow them to postpone certain chores until the next day if it's clear they need to rest and the chores aren't urgent. Or sometimes we'll help them complete the chore if they need some help. It's important to remember that kids often work really hard at school and they need breaks just like adults. If some nights we do takeout or put off the laundry because we're totally wiped out from work, we have to allow the kids to do that too. The work is the stuff we did all day, and sometimes you just need to come home and veg out a little to recover.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 09:02
Subject: Re:Kids and “work before play”
But school is work. And a long day. I think kids need that veg time after school.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:59
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
My middle schooler is at school all day (work), followed by sports or violin (work) and when she gets home and wants to veg out for an hour (play) before dinner, homework (work) and practicing her violin (work) I'm fine with it. The Ask Lisa podcast had an interesting episode lately about the tendency towards "optimizing" our kids like everything else in our life, and how that is not a great practice.
If she didn't get her stuff done I would switch up the schedule but I think the natural schedule is more work before play.
If she didn't get her stuff done I would switch up the schedule but I think the natural schedule is more work before play.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:59
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
I think our parents did have to enforce their rules way more than we remember — I bet if you asked them they would tell you what a slog it was to ask you 15 times to turn off the tv and come set the table. That being said, I do get your point; there’s just so many more screen options these days.
I think part of the problem you’re facing is that by including “play outside” as part of the work they have to do before playing, they naturally think of it as work. What happens if you block time they can play different ways (but they have to do chores before any of it starts)? So they have whatever their Saturday morning chores are and once they’ve finished them they’re allowed to play outside. Then in the afternoon they have different afternoon chores and one those are done they’re allowed play with crafts. Then in the evening once evening chores are done they’re allowed to play on screens. Or set locations for morning/afternoon/evening play: eg, morning play can be in the yard or in your bedrooms, afternoon play can be in the yard or in the playroom, evening play can be in your bedroom or the family room (assuming the family room is where screens are stored).
I think part of the problem you’re facing is that by including “play outside” as part of the work they have to do before playing, they naturally think of it as work. What happens if you block time they can play different ways (but they have to do chores before any of it starts)? So they have whatever their Saturday morning chores are and once they’ve finished them they’re allowed to play outside. Then in the afternoon they have different afternoon chores and one those are done they’re allowed play with crafts. Then in the evening once evening chores are done they’re allowed to play on screens. Or set locations for morning/afternoon/evening play: eg, morning play can be in the yard or in your bedrooms, afternoon play can be in the yard or in the playroom, evening play can be in your bedroom or the family room (assuming the family room is where screens are stored).
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:54
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. It is my goal and so far it seems to be a long process, teaching "do everything you need to do before doing things you want to do (i.e. screens)".
Also, when we were kids, TV would eventually get boring, and even in my 20s at a boring job, I would reach the end of the internet. But now, videos are endless and kids can watch content 247 forever without running out or getting bored.
+1 this is why you really have to impose time limits and make space for them to get bored.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:53
Subject: Re:Kids and “work before play”
When mine were in ES, the rule was 1 hour of screentime on school days and they could choose when. And they had some chores and a bit of homework, including at least 30 min of reading. How they scheduled it was up to them.
When we struggled with them doing what was needed to get out in the mornings I made cards showing each task and that worked well. So we also did them for afterschool. The visual/tactile reminders cut down on my nagging.
I think your problem is it sounds like you are being very controlling about when they do things so they don't have space to make choices.
When we struggled with them doing what was needed to get out in the mornings I made cards showing each task and that worked well. So we also did them for afterschool. The visual/tactile reminders cut down on my nagging.
I think your problem is it sounds like you are being very controlling about when they do things so they don't have space to make choices.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:50
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
I agree, OP. It is my goal and so far it seems to be a long process, teaching "do everything you need to do before doing things you want to do (i.e. screens)".
Also, when we were kids, TV would eventually get boring, and even in my 20s at a boring job, I would reach the end of the internet. But now, videos are endless and kids can watch content 247 forever without running out or getting bored.
Also, when we were kids, TV would eventually get boring, and even in my 20s at a boring job, I would reach the end of the internet. But now, videos are endless and kids can watch content 247 forever without running out or getting bored.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:45
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
Op here again. One thing that was my best “ploy” and sort of works.. is resulting in a strange effect.
It was working, mind you
We started small. They got home, or on a Saturday they’d say “can we watch X or play Y video game?”
I started “do this one task” and then you’re free to play.
The next day, I gave 2 tasks. The next day 3. I worked up to 4.
The tasks are a mix of play, chores, school, helping me, etc. It depends on the kid.
After months of this 4-chore system. Or sometimes on weekends I give them more, or I give them collective projects to work on together… Here is the strange effect. They are just slogging through the work and they hate it. …. Even though some of it is “play outside with friends for a little while.” Or sometimes it’s “pick up 20 things in your room.” “Read 15 minutes” or “practice basketball.”
So I’m teaching them to hate life.
I sort of stopped this whole thing. We go back and forth, if I really really have something for them to do, I give them a chore.
And the other strange effect is now screens are seen as the ultimate thing to work toward. Because of this, now I’ve set a few screen-free days. But, all in all they do the chores and then feel so entitled to be on screens. I made it the ultimate reward.
Ugh.
All I was trying to do is teach “work before play” and I created something else.
Help!!
It was working, mind you
We started small. They got home, or on a Saturday they’d say “can we watch X or play Y video game?”
I started “do this one task” and then you’re free to play.
The next day, I gave 2 tasks. The next day 3. I worked up to 4.
The tasks are a mix of play, chores, school, helping me, etc. It depends on the kid.
After months of this 4-chore system. Or sometimes on weekends I give them more, or I give them collective projects to work on together… Here is the strange effect. They are just slogging through the work and they hate it. …. Even though some of it is “play outside with friends for a little while.” Or sometimes it’s “pick up 20 things in your room.” “Read 15 minutes” or “practice basketball.”
So I’m teaching them to hate life.
I sort of stopped this whole thing. We go back and forth, if I really really have something for them to do, I give them a chore.
And the other strange effect is now screens are seen as the ultimate thing to work toward. Because of this, now I’ve set a few screen-free days. But, all in all they do the chores and then feel so entitled to be on screens. I made it the ultimate reward.
Ugh.
All I was trying to do is teach “work before play” and I created something else.
Help!!
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:39
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
OP here. I have kids across forums. 6,9,12. Kinder, 3rd, 7th.
Anonymous
03/06/2024 08:38
Subject: Kids and “work before play”
Over a long long period of time I hope to teach my kids “Work before play.”
Now there’s always a little bit of rest-play-work in balance ..
However, when you’re a simple middle schooler or ES kid, math homework or cleaning your room —YES—should come before 2 hours of sitting in front of a screen.
And knowing my kids, once the screen comes on, there’s not a lot of bouncing back into responsibility. I remember when I was a kid watching afternoon shows, about 5:00 I’d get my backpack out and do HW.
These days, we live in a different world. Screens never run out of stuff. The kids content never ends. My MSer doesn’t even get home until 4:45.
How do I teach work before play? What’s effective? How do you balance rest / play / responsibility?
Also I will add things I’ve tried, somewhat unsuccessfully, in a second post….
Now there’s always a little bit of rest-play-work in balance ..
However, when you’re a simple middle schooler or ES kid, math homework or cleaning your room —YES—should come before 2 hours of sitting in front of a screen.
And knowing my kids, once the screen comes on, there’s not a lot of bouncing back into responsibility. I remember when I was a kid watching afternoon shows, about 5:00 I’d get my backpack out and do HW.
These days, we live in a different world. Screens never run out of stuff. The kids content never ends. My MSer doesn’t even get home until 4:45.
How do I teach work before play? What’s effective? How do you balance rest / play / responsibility?
Also I will add things I’ve tried, somewhat unsuccessfully, in a second post….