I agree that you need to be vague with your dad and then take it as it comes, and see what your mom’s wishes are when the time comes. A lot can change between now and then. I have known women who were able to become very independent after their spouse’s death and others who crumbled and withered. You can’t know what will happen until it does.

In the meantime, you can look at options on all sides so that when she needs to make the choice, it is less daunting.

Can you get access to her accounts and set up bill pay, etc?

Can you subscribe to Tovala or CookUnity for meals?

Anonymous wrote:This is not your decision or your dad’s decision. This is your mom’s decision. She’s not a puppy who needs rehoming.

Honestly, if it were me I’d be as vague as possible with your dad to make it sound like you’re going to do exactly what he wants you to. It is definitely not his place to decide where your mom will live, but I wouldn’t try to hash that out with someone with a terminal diagnosis. If it gives him comfort to believe that your mom is going to move in with you, then I would certainly heavily imply that.

But in the end, this is your mom’s choice. She may have a certain amount of learned helplessness after living with your dad, who it sounds like was happy to take control of things. But she still gets to make that choice.

My friends and I have dealt with elders who didn't care much for their own parents, but refuse to follow in their footsteps and go to CCRC or AL and yes, if cognitively OK you have free will and it's your decision, but what they don't want to deal with is natural consequences. Their friends move away. They are alone in a house with a caregiver they don't like and if they fire that person, it's hard to get another. They could fall and have nobody around if they refuse help. Their children cannot be there on command. Having meals delivered is not quite as fun as going to a dining room where you can meet up with friends. Chairlifts are bumpy. House repairs are hard to keep up with. You can hire expensive services to help and it's never what you expect and in our case the woman used scare tactics so mom would never consider IL/AL even though 2 of her friends moved to a CCRC with IL?AL?MC and are having a great time there. The biggest issue with all our parents has been completely outrageous demands on us and no ability to empathize with how much we are balancing and how unsustainable it all is. So yes, mommy isn't a puppy, but she needs to understand the limits of her adult children and be willing to face the reality that comes with her decision.

Honestly, most of what you are talking could be set up on auto-order. She could live on frozen dinners for meals and then supplement with whatever fruit, snacks, and beverages she likes. All of this food could be a weekly instacart delivery, all bills can be set up on auto-pay.

This is not your decision or your dad’s decision. This is your mom’s decision. She’s not a puppy who needs rehoming.

Honestly, if it were me I’d be as vague as possible with your dad to make it sound like you’re going to do exactly what he wants you to. It is definitely not his place to decide where your mom will live, but I wouldn’t try to hash that out with someone with a terminal diagnosis. If it gives him comfort to believe that your mom is going to move in with you, then I would certainly heavily imply that.

But in the end, this is your mom’s choice. She may have a certain amount of learned helplessness after living with your dad, who it sounds like was happy to take control of things. But she still gets to make that choice.

I would have a heart to heart talk with your mom to see her preference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are their finances? Could she afford an assisted living place? There are facilities where she’d have her own apartment with a full kitchen, but also dining rooms for meals, programming for activities, and she could come and go as she pleased. There’s usually either a large buy-in cost, then a more modest monthly fee, or no buy-in and a higher monthly cost.

Which county in the NYC area are they in?

Doesn't need to be "assisted living". Just a CCRC (with the high buy in) and you will have independent living but a few restaurants to get your meals (typically you get a set amount of $$$ for the month, but it is usually 1 meal per day and then another 6-7 extras per month, but you can add $$$ and eat all your meals there). This way you also have a built in place to socialize and easy access to moving to next stages (assisted/nursingcare/dementia care/etc) when you need it

Sorry, I misspoke. CCRC is what I was thinking of.

Anonymous wrote:What does your mom want to do?

My mom seems to be in denial and hasn’t really expressed her interests at all. Maybe she doesn’t know what she wants, or maybe she doesn’t want to push back on my dad.

I didn’t mean that she won’t eat and will starve herself, just that she will probably subsist on frozen dinners because she doesn’t like to cook. She is very intelligent - she was a psychiatrist (so a doctor) and now volunteers at a hospital 4 days per week. She is very capable for the most part, just not domestically.

She will never agree to assisted living. Finances are not clear. They own their townhouse outright but there are some monthly HOA fees. They have a good amount of savings, but given that my mom is only 77 and could live for many more years, not sure how that would last should she get sick.

What does your mom want to do?

Anonymous wrote:How are their finances? Could she afford an assisted living place? There are facilities where she’d have her own apartment with a full kitchen, but also dining rooms for meals, programming for activities, and she could come and go as she pleased. There’s usually either a large buy-in cost, then a more modest monthly fee, or no buy-in and a higher monthly cost.

Which county in the NYC area are they in?

Doesn't need to be "assisted living". Just a CCRC (with the high buy in) and you will have independent living but a few restaurants to get your meals (typically you get a set amount of $$$ for the month, but it is usually 1 meal per day and then another 6-7 extras per month, but you can add $$$ and eat all your meals there). This way you also have a built in place to socialize and easy access to moving to next stages (assisted/nursingcare/dementia care/etc) when you need it

If basics like eating food are "too hard" then I don't see how your mother can handle living alone.

I would believe your father. He probably knows more about her capabilities than he wants to say outright. Take this time to carefully observe how she handles things.

I hear you on the benefits of staying put, but if she literally won't eat, what can you do?

I agree with you, but I would also take your father seriously, since he's been living with her all these years.

If there's enough money, I would get her to hire a housecleaner who can also shop for food and cook. This is what my MIL has. You would need power of attorney and supervise her accounts, to make sure the housekeeper doesn't steal from her, and go check on your mother regularly.

I think this solution can prolong her stay in her own home for a few years.

How are their finances? Could she afford an assisted living place? There are facilities where she’d have her own apartment with a full kitchen, but also dining rooms for meals, programming for activities, and she could come and go as she pleased. There’s usually either a large buy-in cost, then a more modest monthly fee, or no buy-in and a higher monthly cost.

Which county in the NYC area are they in?

My dad has been ill and it’s looking like he has 6-12 months to live. He is 80, my mom is 77, and they currently live in the NYC suburbs in a townhouse they downsized to a few years ago.

My dad feels very strongly that when he passes my mom should sell the townhouse and move down to DC to live with me and my family. While I am open to that, I feel like it would be a big mistake to leave all her friends (some of whom have lost a spouse), her brother (who also lost his wife a couple years ago) and her volunteer work which keeps her busy. If she moved down to live with me, I worry she would be very bored since our kids are in school full time, and DH and I both work full time jobs so we aren’t around M-F. My mom is still very active and gets together with friends and her brother regularly and would lose all of that if she leaves.

My dad’s main reasoning is that he doesn’t think my mom is capable of caring for herself - they have been married for over 50 years and he has always managed the finances/paid the bills, taken care of all house related things, cook dinner every night, etc. Admittedly my mom is clueless about all of those things and doesn’t have much hope. Even if she has clear directions on how to pay things like the electric bill she will mess it up somehow. She will also just not eat much because it’s too hard.

My suggestion is not to make any rash decisions and see how things feel once the inevitable happens. I can step in to help with paying bills and order groceries online and stuff, but I genuinely think moving her may be a big mistake.

What have others done in this situation? Any advice?