Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 12:05     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have a higher income than that, and were just looking at LACs, but I agree that it's hard to justify full-pay for a school like Haverford, Colby, Bates, F&M, or Vassar, when you can get $30K/year or more in merit aid at many schools ranked in the 30-50 range. My kid ED'd at one of them and got merit aid. If he'd decided to ED at, say, Bates, and got in, we would have paid, but I'm feeling much better about paying a lot less for a school that is pretty much the same in quality.

I disagree with the concept that people are skipping "target schools." Many schools in that 30-50 range could not be considered safeties. They were targets for my kid (3.7UW, 1460 SAT) but still offer significant merit aid if accepted.


+1 My DD had similar stats which I know put the super selective LACs out of reach. Then the next tier down which would be reasonable reaches are too expensive for us. So she focused on the schools where the cost would come in comparable for what we pay for our other kid to go to a VA state school. So, her list was all safeties + W&M (waitlisted).


+2

Our DC had high stats (1580 SAT, 4.8W at a magnet) and although in theory that put the super selective LACs within reach, we didn't/don't see a meaningful difference between the education offered at a T20 school and the one at a T40 school. DC chose an LAC ranked in the 40s with very generous merit aid (the other option was UMD Honors College with merit aid), which made it financially reasonable for us.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 12:03     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

I think he's using "skip overs" and "second ring" to describe two different things. People are skipping over the second ring to the skip overs. Which is weird.

If I were his editor, I'd say those were the same thing. Skip over the second ring to the goldilocks schools: fit plus merit.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 12:01     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jeff Selling has a talent for creating names for things that are not clear. Buyers and sellers still makes me confused. I get the concept, just who is buying and who is selling.

I read this email this morning and thought the same thing. I think he's right on with this - he describes me! - but are the skip over schools the ones we're skipping over a la "fly over" - or the ones we're skipping to?

But whatever -- for sure agree with this. Not paying 90k a year for BC, sorry BC lovers. Just no value there for full pay families.


The schools are buying and selling. If they're buyers, they have to give you money. If they're sellers, you have to give them more money.

Fly-over schools are the ones you're skipping. Same concept as fly-over states--they're not the destination.



I read the email. he doesn't say fly overs, that's the PP. that would be clear. he's using skip-overs and it's less clear, but I get the idea.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 12:00     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

my kids list was fully this:

Ivy plus
Good matches that offered merit, including international schools.

In the end, he really had a hard time deciding btw the full pay ivy plus and the merit at Denison (with money for grad school). But had he had a full pay middlebury or full pay Colby or full pay BC option, he would have scratched those without a second thought. Which is why he didn't bother.

The only thing is you really have to show a lot of interest and/or don't pick schools known to yield. Or have an international school you feel good about. Or you could end up with nothing, I guess.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:58     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Anonymous wrote:Jeff Selling has a talent for creating names for things that are not clear. Buyers and sellers still makes me confused. I get the concept, just who is buying and who is selling.

I read this email this morning and thought the same thing. I think he's right on with this - he describes me! - but are the skip over schools the ones we're skipping over a la "fly over" - or the ones we're skipping to?

But whatever -- for sure agree with this. Not paying 90k a year for BC, sorry BC lovers. Just no value there for full pay families.


The schools are buying and selling. If they're buyers, they have to give you money. If they're sellers, you have to give them more money.

Fly-over schools are the ones you're skipping. Same concept as fly-over states--they're not the destination.

Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:55     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Jeff Selling has a talent for creating names for things that are not clear. Buyers and sellers still makes me confused. I get the concept, just who is buying and who is selling.

I read this email this morning and thought the same thing. I think he's right on with this - he describes me! - but are the skip over schools the ones we're skipping over a la "fly over" - or the ones we're skipping to?

But whatever -- for sure agree with this. Not paying 90k a year for BC, sorry BC lovers. Just no value there for full pay families.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:52     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Totally agree with what the OP and others have said.... even putting finances aside, the system is so busted that there's no such thing as "Targets" for admission anymore.

If you define Target as a place where you are not assured acceptance, but you have a fairly reasonable shot of getting in-- that is blown away when we take away fair and reasonable. (thanks, TO!)

Anyway, who could blame folks for choosing Ivy-Plus or a great in-state option? Good for them.

Higher education has to reckon with the fact that families fully understand they emperor is wearing no clothes.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:51     Subject: Re:Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

My kid got a substantial merit package at a SLAC in the T50-100 range and we could not justify the price difference with the higher ranked but not T20 schools. The gap was substantial.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:47     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

I think some of this is just parents thinking the “Ivy plus” schools ARE targets. By the time decisions come out, it’s too late to shift gears.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:43     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"



There is another reason they might be skipping over target schools: they don’t even know what the term means these days. The rising number of deferrals and outright rejections we’re seeing right now at campuses that would have been a target school two or three years ago—places like Florida State, Clemson, Furman, U. of South Carolina, for instance—illustrates “there’s no such thing as a target school anymore,” Allison Slater Tate, a college counselor in Florida told me.


This is a critical point (and sort of undermines his whole premise). My kid applied to two super-reaches, three reaches, one target, and three safeties. Two of the reaches should have been targets based on stats, but their acceptance rates are in the low- to mid-teens, so they’re automatically reaches. (The target was one where my kid’s stats should have made it a safety, but its acceptance rate is only 25-30%, so how can that be a safety?)

Building this around the “target” concept confuses the matter. What he’s really saying is, if you’re a private school but not top-ranked/highly desirable and don’t offer generous merit, your market is getting smaller and smaller. Target is not really a useful concept these days.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:42     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Anonymous wrote:We have a higher income than that, and were just looking at LACs, but I agree that it's hard to justify full-pay for a school like Haverford, Colby, Bates, F&M, or Vassar, when you can get $30K/year or more in merit aid at many schools ranked in the 30-50 range. My kid ED'd at one of them and got merit aid. If he'd decided to ED at, say, Bates, and got in, we would have paid, but I'm feeling much better about paying a lot less for a school that is pretty much the same in quality.

I disagree with the concept that people are skipping "target schools." Many schools in that 30-50 range could not be considered safeties. They were targets for my kid (3.7UW, 1460 SAT) but still offer significant merit aid if accepted.


+1 My DD had similar stats which I know put the super selective LACs out of reach. Then the next tier down which would be reasonable reaches are too expensive for us. So she focused on the schools where the cost would come in comparable for what we pay for our other kid to go to a VA state school. So, her list was all safeties + W&M (waitlisted).
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:42     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Anonymous wrote:
There is another reason they might be skipping over target schools: they don’t even know what the term means these days. The rising number of deferrals and outright rejections we’re seeing right now at campuses that would have been a target school two or three years ago—places like Florida State, Clemson, Furman, U. of South Carolina, for instance—illustrates “there’s no such thing as a target school anymore,” Allison Slater Tate, a college counselor in Florida told me.


This part is so real. If you’ve found safeties you love, and you’re already coping with the crazy ED1/ED2/lottery situation for your reaches, what role are targets supposed to play? It used to be that a target was a better school than a safety, but with fairly predictable admission odds given your grades and test scores. But with grade inflation and test optional, everything seems random. And nowadays every safety has an honors college and plenty of strong kids who are there on merit. So what are target schools supposed to be for anymore anyway?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:36     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

We have a higher income than that, and were just looking at LACs, but I agree that it's hard to justify full-pay for a school like Haverford, Colby, Bates, F&M, or Vassar, when you can get $30K/year or more in merit aid at many schools ranked in the 30-50 range. My kid ED'd at one of them and got merit aid. If he'd decided to ED at, say, Bates, and got in, we would have paid, but I'm feeling much better about paying a lot less for a school that is pretty much the same in quality.

I disagree with the concept that people are skipping "target schools." Many schools in that 30-50 range could not be considered safeties. They were targets for my kid (3.7UW, 1460 SAT) but still offer significant merit aid if accepted.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:25     Subject: Re:Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

They also go to SLACs that offer merit. Because in many states the flagship is hard to get into or the kid wants a smaller environment.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2024 11:23     Subject: Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

Selingo notes that people are increasingly disinclined to pay for "second tier" schools that don't give merit - if they don't get into "Ivy Plus" then they go straight to state public flagship. He thinks this will become very common for people in the $160-220k HHI range (donut holes). I agree. If you don't get top-drawer prestige, why pay the top-drawer price?


Today, let me start with the idea of “skip-over schools.”

This is a trend I’m finding among those families who start the college search with an “Ivy Plus or bust” mentality. When that acceptance doesn’t come in as expected, then they skip over what most of us would consider the “next ring” of selective colleges—especially if they care more about money than prestige.

I’m reluctant to name names yet of these skip-over schools without fully absorbing the quantitative data, but think of privates just outside of the top 40 or 50 in the national rankings, outside the top 20 or 25 among liberal arts colleges, and publics in those tiers that don’t give out boatloads of merit aid, which makes their net price too high for some families.

Many of the schools in what I’ll call the “second ring” have been able to maintain a healthy proportion of full-pay or close to full-pay families after they are rejected from Ivy Plus institutions. That is, until now.

“Only about thirty private colleges in this country can feel assured that the vastly disrupted ‘college choice’ paradigm does not spell trouble for them,” a former vice president of enrollment at one of these second ring schools told me. “For everyone else on the survival spectrum, the next ten years will not be pretty.”

You might recall this graphic below from an issue of Next last July that shows the rapid deterioration of full payers at institutions in the middle—those ranked 51-100. Even the Top 50 group has seen some decline, which likely is only going to get worse for those campuses that are just inside that group.

What I’m finding in my book research is that some families are increasingly skipping over this next ring of institutions from the very top because they don’t get good offers of merit aid. So, instead, the families chase dollars from a set of institutions deeper in the rankings or the kid heads off to an honors college at a flagship public with a low net price (sometimes zero) and lots of perks, like early access to course registration and sponsored research projects with faculty.

This idea of let’s try for Ivy U., and then if not, State U. has been common in some places like Georgia and Florida for decades, ever since they put in place their lottery scholarships in the late 1990s. I remember reporting a story in Athens, Ga. for The Chronicle of Higher Education where faculty members noted to me all the new cars students were driving. When those students didn’t get into Harvard or Penn, then a top-ranked Georgia student would stay in-state, take the Hope scholarship, and head off to UGA or Georgia Tech with a new car and their family savings intact.

This trend of skip over-schools might accelerate in the coming years, especially among families in the top 5-10% of income ($158,200 to $222,400 a year).

Why?

As Gail Cornwell recently reported in New York magazine, data released last year that compared parents’ tax filings and applicants’ test scores with admission and enrollment records showed “that chances of admission are lowest for children of the top 5 to 10 percent” at Ivy-Plus colleges. So instead of applying to the next ring of institutions, will they simply skip over them and say “show me the money”?

Bottom line: As families put together their college lists, it seems they have “reaches” and “safeties,” but they’re almost skipping over target schools in their quest for merit.

There is another reason they might be skipping over target schools: they don’t even know what the term means these days. The rising number of deferrals and outright rejections we’re seeing right now at campuses that would have been a target school two or three years ago—places like Florida State, Clemson, Furman, U. of South Carolina, for instance—illustrates “there’s no such thing as a target school anymore,” Allison Slater Tate, a college counselor in Florida told me.