Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader took Algebra I HN last year and is in Geometry HN this year. However, math is absolutely not her favorite nor her best class. This thread has been so helpful since they have to make class decisions soon!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Honors B vs non-honors A" is always a tough call. It partly depends on if the student is getting a comfortable B and just needs more time and practice for the advanced ideas to sink in, or if they are struggling and working really hard to get that B, and it's unsustainable. Also depends on whether Alg 1 was a struggle or an easy A, and if the student still remembers it well after a year of geometry.

Being bored in an easier class is a disservice. I know GPA is the false god we all lie prostrate to, but a more challenging class gives the *option* to grow and learn more, while the basic class holds you back unless you challenge yourself privately.

This is exactly the dilemma we're facing. My child had an easy A in Honors Algebra 1 (taught in 8th grade). Their initial plan was to take Honors Algebra 2 because they think their struggle is with Geometry specifically, not with the level of the class. Has a solid B in Honors Geometry. Doesn't seem to be working all that hard, but what they're making mistakes on ARE the application of the material. But, I hear your point that not even being exposed to the application of the material is a big negative and probably a disservice.

The whole GPA situation is also tricky. That Honors B is pulling my child's GPA down, while a regular A would give it a little boost. I'm not sure what the colleges value more -- a lower GPA with harder classes taken, or just a higher GPA, when most classes are rigorous and just the math class isn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this out. I have a child who is currently in Geometry HN and is doing fine but not great (solid B average). They are not planning to pursue a college degree that is super math heavy (ie no engineering or hard sciences). Based on teacher feedback (teacher said my child could go either way - may have a tough time in HN Alg 2, but may not feel challenged in Reg) -- we suggested our kid drop down to regular Algebra 2 and build a solid foundation instead of possibly being overwhelmed in HN. Since they don't really NEED to get to BC Calc for future plans, this seemed like the smarter move. Especially since my child will take HN or AP in all other major subject areas and will likely have more time to focus on those with a less rigorous math course. Anything we're not thinking of?

Anonymous wrote:Teacher above said honors algebra 2 better for both application and analysis if do IB and if don’t do honors then will have hard time with 1 of those. Is it an option to only take either application or just analysis or with IB does student have to take both, which means even if harder, if want to take IB and if IB means have to take both application AND analysis, better to get foundation from the honors class? If know student wants IB, want to steer them to where they have tools to succeed for classes want to take. For purposes of this question, putting aside of one class would get easier higher grade v another class. Thanks,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this out. I have a child who is currently in Geometry HN and is doing fine but not great (solid B average). They are not planning to pursue a college degree that is super math heavy (ie no engineering or hard sciences). Based on teacher feedback (teacher said my child could go either way - may have a tough time in HN Alg 2, but may not feel challenged in Reg) -- we suggested our kid drop down to regular Algebra 2 and build a solid foundation instead of possibly being overwhelmed in HN. Since they don't really NEED to get to BC Calc for future plans, this seemed like the smarter move. Especially since my child will take HN or AP in all other major subject areas and will likely have more time to focus on those with a less rigorous math course. Anything we're not thinking of?

Anonymous wrote:

"Honors B vs non-honors A" is always a tough call. It partly depends on if the student is getting a comfortable B and just needs more time and practice for the advanced ideas to sink in, or if they are struggling and working really hard to get that B, and it's unsustainable. Also depends on whether Alg 1 was a struggle or an easy A, and if the student still remembers it well after a year of geometry.

Being bored in an easier class is a disservice. I know GPA is the false god we all lie prostrate to, but a more challenging class gives the *option* to grow and learn more, while the basic class holds you back unless you challenge yourself privately.

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.

Anonymous wrote:I wrote a handout on this for our curriculum night. I can copy the text of it tomorrow when I’m back at my desk. That said, it will vary significantly by the school and teachers.

In short at my school: honors moves significantly faster and requires students to go beyond what is explicitly shown in class. For example:

Regular A2 will be shown various types of polynomials and how to factor them. The test will be an assortment of polynomials and students will be asked to factor them. A2H will get the same instruction, but then will be given something like 4x^3-2x^2-kx+1 and asked to find a value of k that makes it factor able with using the grouping method.

It also includes at least one or two extra standards/skills per unit. In my regular A2 class, I have time to spend a day reviewing prerequisite skills. In honors, students need to already have mastered (and retained) all the material from prior coursework, because the review days are taken up with extension topics. For example:

Both classes solved systems of quadratic equations. An algebra 1 standard is systems of linear equations. In A2 I spent time (maybe 1/2 block) reviewing simplistic systems that didn’t require much manipulation (terms dropped out easily) before shifting into more difficult examples with new content. After we covered all 3 methods with quadratics, I had a full day devoted to practicing all methods. In honors, we spent a 5 minute warm up reviewing what a system is, and then dove right into the new stuff, because in addition to quadratics we had to cover systems where x is a function of y (sideways parabolas), and all graphing and solving was expected to be done by hand. In gen ed, students were able to use calculators to graph equations and find intersections to check work or find ordered pairs for graphing.

If you are in an AP school, both classes are a stepping stone to precalc. You can think of gen ed as the AB version of calc and honors as BC. 75% of the class is the same, but that extra 25% really increases the pace for honors.

If you are at an IB school, a successful gen ed algebra 2 student will struggle with the rigor expected in IB analysis, but should be fine with IB applications. If analysis is desired, I would make the jump to honors.