Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For society in general:

High percentages of young people who can no longer realistically aspire to the American dream of home ownership as their parents did

High levels of student debt

Falling life expectancies

Youngish adults not being able to provide the same advantages in life to their children as their parents did for them.

Hmm...to me that seems different than genteel poverty. You're talking downward mobility/falling standards of living for entire class of people x generational cohort.

Genteel poverty is kind of about being too poor to keep up appearances.

If you rent a nice apartment in the city and can't afford to own a SFH in suburbia like your parents, that's falling standards of living but not poverty of any sort.

If your parents were rich but lost all their money in a crypto collapse and you live together in a foreclosed mansion in an unfinished development where your utilities have been cut-off for non-payment, that's genteel poverty to me.

It has to be very apparent that one is living far below one's social class or lacks resources to avoid detection of limited means.

I agree with your general point that there's a distinction between genteel poverty and downward mobility, but there's also a distinction to be made between either of those categories and at least a third, related one -- making different choices than your parents did. I say this as the parent of young adults who earn good salaries and have trust funds, but who are opting for lifestyles different from their parents -- and that's a good thing. (Love you, Martha Stewart, even in your velour track suit - and forgive you for the head trip you did on women of our generation.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For society in general:

High percentages of young people who can no longer realistically aspire to the American dream of home ownership as their parents did

High levels of student debt

Falling life expectancies

Youngish adults not being able to provide the same advantages in life to their children as their parents did for them.

Hmm...to me that seems different than genteel poverty. You're talking downward mobility/falling standards of living for entire class of people x generational cohort.

Genteel poverty is kind of about being too poor to keep up appearances.

If you rent a nice apartment in the city and can't afford to own a SFH in suburbia like your parents, that's falling standards of living but not poverty of any sort.

If your parents were rich but lost all their money in a crypto collapse and you live together in a foreclosed mansion in an unfinished development where your utilities have been cut-off for non-payment, that's genteel poverty to me.

It has to be very apparent that one is living far below one's social class or lacks resources to avoid detection of limited means.

OK I see your point.

My DH and I both come from UMC families and live a fairly UMC life. However, I am concerned for our children, and for the younger generation in general, as it is so much harder for them to attain similar home equity, job stability with benefits, remain debt free from student loans. and even attain the same level of good health and dental insurance.

Just look at online listings in nice neighborhoods. Lots of dilapidated houses in expensive zip codes that look like the family was hanging onto for dear life. Case in point: https://www.redfin.com/MD/Chevy-Chase/204-Oxford-St-20815/home/10651222

The Schitt's Creek family: champagne tastes on no budget, but kinda ok with it.

Drink cheap wine, rare professional haircuts

I do outreach work for a small charity. I have delivered food to some once/beautiful, large homes in nice neighborhoods. Arrive to a near vacant house where homeowner had sold off all items of value to pay bills. Sometimes it’s adult, drug addicted children who move back into parents’ longtime home and outlive their parents.

Or, it’s the grandparents’ home that has been a safe haven - they’ve died and now the third+4th generation is bunking in and ruining the place.

Anonymous wrote:For society in general:

High percentages of young people who can no longer realistically aspire to the American dream of home ownership as their parents did

High levels of student debt

Falling life expectancies

Youngish adults not being able to provide the same advantages in life to their children as their parents did for them.

Hmm...to me that seems different than genteel poverty. You're talking downward mobility/falling standards of living for entire class of people x generational cohort.

Genteel poverty is kind of about being too poor to keep up appearances.

If you rent a nice apartment in the city and can't afford to own a SFH in suburbia like your parents, that's falling standards of living but not poverty of any sort.

If your parents were rich but lost all their money in a crypto collapse and you live together in a foreclosed mansion in an unfinished development where your utilities have been cut-off for non-payment, that's genteel poverty to me.

It has to be very apparent that one is living far below one's social class or lacks resources to avoid detection of limited means.

In the early 90s I had just moved to the US to be an au pair. I made a friend through the kids who was at AU. He came from very wealthy parents in England, private schools, the accent, Mercedes as a graduation gift etc. However, he must have been cut off at some recent point because he didn’t have insurance on the Mercedes because he couldn’t afford it. If we went anywhere we gave him gas money, even like a day trip to Annapolis. This was common in au pair circles so didn’t think anything of it at the time. Oh, and he would stop by to see me at work and say “ can I make a quick sandwich “ so basically eat at my host family’s house for free.
I’d kind like to know what he’s up to now but have no idea where he lives.

Living with mom in a large dilapidated house in East Hampton

The ballad of songbirds and snakes

For society in general:

High percentages of young people who can no longer realistically aspire to the American dream of home ownership as their parents did

High levels of student debt

Falling life expectancies

Youngish adults not being able to provide the same advantages in life to their children as their parents did for them.

In books, genteel poverty seems to mean you couldn't afford updated clothes but you weren't so poor you had to actually get a job.

I think the modern equivalent would be an Ivy legacy who became a ceramics artist and lives in a geodesic dome. Has really good (inherited) kitchenware but the hot water is iffy.

I worked in a cell biology lab and all the postdocs would have qualified. They all made between 30 and 40k (10 years ago) but from their speech and habits were clearly not low class.

What's genteel poverty these days?

I don't think we really have this kind of economic setup in the US anymore. Genteel poverty came with inherited houses, land, issues relating to not being able to employ servants, farmworkers, etc. Or unemployable family members such as older women who could not earn much or any money outside the home do to cultural norms about white-collar work.

The era of low wage, unskilled servants is long over in the U.S. When people's families lose money and status, they trade down in real estate and other upper class accoutrements. But that isn't necessarily very interesting. I knew a DC family that had become less rich but they still had a housekeeper and their everyday silverware was massive Victorian sterling. Among the other families I know, they had to give up on their fancy summer houses.

Are you looking for downward mobility across generations? Profligacy by the ultra-rich resulting in bankruptcy? Or peeling wallpaper genteel poverty. If the last, maybe try UK media.

Are there any stories you can share? I haven’t seen this topic for a while now so I am starting a new thread.