Anonymous wrote:i am from the uk, and while i dont think it is the best, I think it is amazing and integral to being a developed country that there is free healthcare for anyone who needs it.

I think what's really misunderstood is you can also get private healthcare just like you can here. but there is a safety net.

exactly.

I posted up thread..my MIL has been in the hospital for a month. She will need full time care. The one month hospital stay is at no charge. The home health care will be covered by NHS after she exhausts her savings to 25k, which will be soon.

yes, they pay for it with their taxes, but that's the thing.. everyone is paying into the system, and everyone gets some level care.

Here, you have to pay up the nose to get any level of care.

or the peace of mind of having free healthcare at the point of service

Other countries do not have "free healthcare." Their healthcare is funded at least partially centrally through taxes. And in many/most of these countries you can opt to pay for private care. Basically, everyone has a safety net, but the wealthier can soar high above it and pay for private care.

i am from the uk, and while i dont think it is the best, I think it is amazing and integral to being a developed country that there is free healthcare for anyone who needs it.

I think what's really misunderstood is you can also get private healthcare just like you can here. but there is a safety net.

Apparently the reason UK, Canada and elsewhere get cheap medications is that the US basically pays for them for the entire world and any small amount the drug companies get from government healthcare countries is just gravy.

We could probably reduce the prices we pay here by forcing the drug companies to charge all countries the same amount.

Well the point is that healthcare is for profit in US. Start there with your analysis. What do you think happens? You work in healthcare to make the most amount of money you can. Insurance is geared to profit so use your logic and figure out how that translates into consumer results.

My personal experience that even in countries not European or Canadian like Mexico, Taiwan, Costa Rica- it's a competent experience without paying an obscene amount of money.

The problem in the US cones down to money. The higher your quality of life incl healthcare if wealthy. Less proportionately incl healthcare. We live in a capitalist society so this is how our institutions are wired. Unless you change the system of government, no way do you ever improve from this structure.

I think healthcare is obscene and I make $200k a year. Criminal. Because for me, I still have to pay my copays and deductibles so while I can afford it, I shouldn't have to. And it's not better wait times or anything.

No to the UK. No to Canada.

I just received a $200k bill of which the insurance negotiated rate is $65K. Because, luckily, I picked an HMO that only covers in network care and I could find good in network docs for this situation, I will only have to pay $650. But had I picked a different plan, I might have ended up paying 20 or 30% coinsurance - so 12-18K dollars, which is less than many plans OOP. Had I been uninsured, I would have paid $200k.

By contrast, if that $200K bill had been as the result of treatment due to an emergency while I was in NY on vacation for a week, everything would have been out of network and then uncovered by insurance. At best I could have argued with the insurer to pay their UCR on "emergency" care to the OON health providers, but the OON would have balance billed me for the remaining $140K.

The 200K was for surgery that was urgent but not an emergency. I could not have put it off until the next year in order to pick the perfect health insurance plan for my situation.

Healthcare is majorly F'd up in this country. We need universal healthcare. If many European countries can have it, so can we.

Anonymous wrote:Probably a European countries like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc. Certainly not the UK. My English family and friends complain nonstop how horrid the NHS is now.

Ask them if they want the US healthcare system where we pay $1400/month for a family of 4 with a high deductible plan.

My spouse's family is from the UK. They also complain about the NHS, but then we start telling them how much ours cost, and they shut up. UK has private insurance and one can pay out of pocket for private care if they want to. My SIL did this for a specific procedure. It was a fraction of what it would cost here.

Probably a European countries like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc. Certainly not the UK. My English family and friends complain nonstop how horrid the NHS is now.

Anonymous wrote:I've had insurance my entire life. My parents had a great plan and then I do as well (Kaiser Permanente). I can't say that I can complain about anything. I get new doctor's appts within the month, but I'm also young (40s) and haven't had any major issues other than birth. My dad recently needed brain surgery and he was able to go to one of the top surgeons in America for this type of tumor. He easily got an appt and insurance paid most of it.

I really don't think ours is as broken as the news makes it seem. Except for ERs. ERs truly are some kind of sh!tshow. But that's because people clog them up with tons of unneeded stuff. They should be pushing people to urgent cares or primary care doctors, but they can't. Oh and therapy is a sh!tshow too. But I think if therapy was easy to access, nearly every American would be going weekly. There is some cost/benefit analysis there. Kaiser definitely wouldn't pay.

A lot of my friends have lived abroad and were not happy with the medical care and did indicate that they preferred ours. In Ontario my friend got supplemental private insurance because her company said she'd need it. She wasn't happy with them trying to push a vaginal birth on her when she'd had back surgery and a prior c section. Friends currently living in England also have private insurance.

The US system is "broken" in that a person can go bankrupt due to medical debt. No other civilized country has this problem.

The best type of system is both public and private, where you can get private insurance if you want to. Most civilized countries have this option. Also, their insurance is no where near as expensive as ours, and neither are the costs for the medical care even if you pay out pocket.

Anonymous wrote:If you have enough money, the US is the best. If you are a normal person, someone where in Western Europe other than the UK

This right here.

I think this will come down to Switzerland. But it is really difficult to compare care in a country of 9 million to one with a population of 330 million.

I've had insurance my entire life. My parents had a great plan and then I do as well (Kaiser Permanente). I can't say that I can complain about anything. I get new doctor's appts within the month, but I'm also young (40s) and haven't had any major issues other than birth. My dad recently needed brain surgery and he was able to go to one of the top surgeons in America for this type of tumor. He easily got an appt and insurance paid most of it.

I really don't think ours is as broken as the news makes it seem. Except for ERs. ERs truly are some kind of sh!tshow. But that's because people clog them up with tons of unneeded stuff. They should be pushing people to urgent cares or primary care doctors, but they can't. Oh and therapy is a sh!tshow too. But I think if therapy was easy to access, nearly every American would be going weekly. There is some cost/benefit analysis there. Kaiser definitely wouldn't pay.

A lot of my friends have lived abroad and were not happy with the medical care and did indicate that they preferred ours. In Ontario my friend got supplemental private insurance because her company said she'd need it. She wasn't happy with them trying to push a vaginal birth on her when she'd had back surgery and a prior c section. Friends currently living in England also have private insurance.

If you have enough money, the US is the best. If you are a normal person, someone where in Western Europe other than the UK

Let's have an honest conversation about different healthcare systems around the world and where America stands.

I initially was going to write this in the political section, but I actually want to discuss it more from an outcomes, data, plus anecdote standpoint since that's what a lot of people have to offer, rather than ideological. I am actually interested in anecdotes AND actual data.

I only have experience in the US and the UK, and friends' experiences in Europe. DH was injured in the UK years ago and received adequate care, didn't have to wait significantly longer than he would in the US, but he did have to nag the nurses for some things to get needed attention, but he did get what he needed, it was fine but not stellar service by any means. Relatives in the UK who lean conservative bemoan NHS inefficiency, while others say that defunding it is the cause of the inneficiency.

I also have a friend who is an Italian citizen and gave birth in Italy. She gave birth to a preemie and spent a month in the NICU and paid nothing, and had no complaints about the service.

As for the US, my own experiences have been mixed to positive. I definitely appreciated being kept on my parents' insurance until age 26, and my father had the privilege of a state employee union healthcare plan, the Cadillac of Cadillac plans. The Real World of being an Adult gave me a reality check; while the first two jobs I had did have healthcare benefits, they kind of sucked. One company told us point blank that premiums were going to double and that would be entirely on the employee opting for it out of their paycheck and employer contribution wouldn't budge. I had to shift to a silver or bronze plan with a high deductible. In my current job and salary, I can afford a Gold Tier plan, which covers everything I've ever needed and has a pretty low deductible for out of network... and this is key.
The biggest issue I've had with the US healthcare systems is that the best doctors seem to just opt out of taking insurance altogether. And those that do take insurance, they either aren't taking new patients for years, or they make you feel like just a number in their quota system and just hustle you along. But if you can afford it, and out-of-network expenses don't bother you, you can find any kind of healthcare you could ever need in the US.

However, the idea that private/capitalist American healthcare doesn't have wait times is a myth. My mother needs to wait an entire year to schedule a knee surgery. And good luck trying to find a new doctor who takes your insurance who is taking new patients. Also, wait times even when you have appointments can get ridiculous. I've waited for hours after the scheduled time of an appointment only to be seen by the nurse to take vitals and then another hour for the actual doctor, who seems to need to hurry away.

I honestly don't know enough to compare the US system with that of say, Denmark. Many others of plenty to say about wait times, or the peace of mind of having free healthcare at the point of service, and it is usually anecdotal and ideologically-influenced.
Objective health data doesn't bode well for the US case, given declining life expectancy (especially WRT Northern Europe and Japan), plus a higher infant mortality and maternal mortality rate than Western developed nations. But this data could be attributed to other things, like lifestyle choices and culture.

Anyways, I wanted to lead off this discussion of honest assessment of different healthcare systems and what you really think is the best.