Anonymous
01/09/2024 16:02
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:
A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.
But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.
Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.
Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.
I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.
Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.
It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 14:46
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:You seem not to understand that a great part of “financial aid” is comprised of a discount off a mythical rack rate that nobody except the truly filthy rich, if them, will ever pay. And student loans, while begun with good intentions, have become an unholy combination between financial institutions and educational institutions, where both increase profit at the expense of student/customers.
this is not true at the top 20ish schools, where half the students pay full price and half get a big big FA package.
as has been written about here forever, colleges could do a better job stepping financial aid from the most needy to the least. Barbell campuses are not healthy environments. Greater economic diversity on campus would lead to more dynamic classrooms
Anonymous
01/09/2024 14:45
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
Wanna bet? The Federal Government (IRS and Dept. of Education, to start), full pay parents, and the colleges' financial aid department have a right to know.
DP. You seem to be agitated about the FAFSA. But if a family gets a lower EFC than you, they don't get that money. Most schools, including state schools do not meet need identified by the FAFSA. Most families, even those who shield income only get loans through FAFSA. Best case scenario, the family is Pell eligible. They may get a grant of up to $7000 per year.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 14:43
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
+1. The FAFSA is a snapshot, that's it. It spits out a number but that's not the end of the story, and it doesn't hand any one aid unless they are Pell eligible.
OP, do you realize how low the threshold is for Pell?
Do you know what the maximum Pell Grant actually is?
do you know she's talking CSS not FAFSA?
Anonymous
01/09/2024 13:57
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
Wanna bet? The Federal Government (IRS and Dept. of Education, to start), full pay parents, and the colleges' financial aid department have a right to know.
If full pay parents don’t like the cost they can just refuse to send their child and pay for a different college. Problem solved.
You can write a (slightly) bigger check than me so you get to audit me for a decade?
Get over yourself, seriously. Mind-boggling entitlement.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 13:46
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
You seem not to understand that a great part of “financial aid” is comprised of a discount off a mythical rack rate that nobody except the truly filthy rich, if them, will ever pay. And student loans, while begun with good intentions, have become an unholy combination between financial institutions and educational institutions, where both increase profit at the expense of student/customers.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 13:14
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
Wanna bet? The Federal Government (IRS and Dept. of Education, to start), full pay parents, and the colleges' financial aid department have a right to know.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 13:12
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do you think anything related to colleges is fair ?
I think it's very much unfair, but with 10-year data as easily pulled as 1-year data, it doesn't have to be. You do better when you can do better.
I would agree with 10 year data. Or heck, make it data for the child's lifetime--with a standard rate you were expected to save from it calculated in. Then savers wouldn't be penalized more than spenders and there's less finagling with your income.
+1
Completely agree. Also go after those paid under the table, and/or given benefits for free, and/or claimed fewer or more hours, and/or loopholed onto someone's payroll, and/or slipped family money for costs and expenses - so that those crying poor mouth will be found out. Why should those who are honest be expected to subsidize those who are dishonest? Maybe more people need to be reported to FAFSA/DofEd, the IRS, and the colleges, more often. I would encourage it.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 13:03
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
+1. The FAFSA is a snapshot, that's it. It spits out a number but that's not the end of the story, and it doesn't hand any one aid unless they are Pell eligible.
OP, do you realize how low the threshold is for Pell?
Do you know what the maximum Pell Grant actually is?
Anonymous
01/09/2024 13:01
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
huh?
Anonymous
01/09/2024 12:43
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do you think anything related to colleges is fair ?
I think it's very much unfair, but with 10-year data as easily pulled as 1-year data, it doesn't have to be. You do better when you can do better.
I would agree with 10 year data. Or heck, make it data for the child's lifetime--with a standard rate you were expected to save from it calculated in. Then savers wouldn't be penalized more than spenders and there's less finagling with your income.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 12:38
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 12:35
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Anonymous wrote:Why do you think anything related to colleges is fair ?
I think it's very much unfair, but with 10-year data as easily pulled as 1-year data, it doesn't have to be. You do better when you can do better.
Anonymous
01/09/2024 12:30
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Why do you think anything related to colleges is fair ?
Anonymous
01/09/2024 12:20
Subject: Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..
Here's my question:
A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.
But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.
Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.
Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.
I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.
A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.
But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.
Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.
Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.
I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.