Denison is in a better location than Kenyon, which is in the middle of nowhere. Although not a LAC, Case Western is probably more competitive than both of them and is in the artsy part of Cleveland.

Is there much overlap between Kenyon and Denison aspirants? The schools seem to have very different cultures, and they seem to attract different kids. If in fact there’s little overlap, it’s odd to ask which is “better.” The right question would be about which one is better for a particular kid.

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is throwing a lot of $ into building up an already stunning campus (library and dorms in particular). I don't see Denison gaining much ground with them. For the others, yes. I think the niche for Denison is that they are a SLAC with collectively moderate political views (read not-Woke) which contrasts wildly with Oberlin.

I consider Kenyon more cerebral, but I also see a lot of the athletic recruits (apart from swim/dive) reconsidering Kenyon for Denison when it's clear that 1/3 of the student population are NARPS with pink hair.

This is astute and highlights Denison's advantage versus Kenyon, and vice versa. Denison does have a financial advantage vs Kenyon with a hefty billion-ish endowment, but Kenyon's financial picture has improved dramatically in recent years with significant growth in the endowment as well as a $100 million donation for new dorms. Financially, Kenyon is in a strong position as it rounds the corner on the 200th anniversary. Kenyon is riding the recent campus turmoil relatively well--some protest activity and frustrating emails but otherwise under control. Brainy kids, especially Jewish students, eyeing "cerebral" east coast LACs that are spinning out of control now would be smart to kick the tires on Kenyon. I'm bullish on both schools, but it needs to be acknowledged that Kenyon's student body is demonstrably superior at this point from an academic perspective. Kenyon average ACT is 33. Denison is 31. Top NESCACs are 34. With the madness happening at east coast colleges and universities, midwestern common sense and decency is emerging as an advantage.

Anonymous wrote:Ohio?

No thanks.

Dobbs dork! Was wondering where you were. Glad you finally made it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed this too. Back in the day, I got into Denison and Wooster, and was rejected from Oberlin. Nowadays, I think I could get into Oberlin but probably not Denison. Denison seems to be doing better than PA liberal arts schools, which seem similar. I think it was eventually pass Kenyon too, in maybe 10 years. Kenyon is attracts a lot of English students and has a pretty low percentage of STEM students, which I think hurts it nowadays. But it’s not falling like Oberlin. I guess we’ll see too if Wooster ever moves past Oberlin too.

That's an interesting observation. Where would you slot Denison in the PA pecking order, as of right now? Clearly it's not at the level of Swat, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, but I think it's just as clearly ahead of Dickinson and Gettysburg. That puts it somewhere in the Bucknell, Lafayette, F&M mix. I'd lean more to the F&M side now, but I also think it may have the highest ceiling of any of those schools.

I was not thinking of Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, or Bucknell. But I think it’s doing better than Lafayette, F&M, Dickinson, and Gettysburg.

I think Denison and Gettysburg are very similar. I'd be suprised if every applicant to one, isn't also applying to the other. Same demographic.

Ohio?

No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed this too. Back in the day, I got into Denison and Wooster, and was rejected from Oberlin. Nowadays, I think I could get into Oberlin but probably not Denison. Denison seems to be doing better than PA liberal arts schools, which seem similar. I think it was eventually pass Kenyon too, in maybe 10 years. Kenyon is attracts a lot of English students and has a pretty low percentage of STEM students, which I think hurts it nowadays. But it’s not falling like Oberlin. I guess we’ll see too if Wooster ever moves past Oberlin too.

That's an interesting observation. Where would you slot Denison in the PA pecking order, as of right now? Clearly it's not at the level of Swat, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, but I think it's just as clearly ahead of Dickinson and Gettysburg. That puts it somewhere in the Bucknell, Lafayette, F&M mix. I'd lean more to the F&M side now, but I also think it may have the highest ceiling of any of those schools.

I was not thinking of Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, or Bucknell. But I think it’s doing better than Lafayette, F&M, Dickinson, and Gettysburg.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed this too. Back in the day, I got into Denison and Wooster, and was rejected from Oberlin. Nowadays, I think I could get into Oberlin but probably not Denison. Denison seems to be doing better than PA liberal arts schools, which seem similar. I think it was eventually pass Kenyon too, in maybe 10 years. Kenyon is attracts a lot of English students and has a pretty low percentage of STEM students, which I think hurts it nowadays. But it’s not falling like Oberlin. I guess we’ll see too if Wooster ever moves past Oberlin too.

That's an interesting observation. Where would you slot Denison in the PA pecking order, as of right now? Clearly it's not at the level of Swat, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, but I think it's just as clearly ahead of Dickinson and Gettysburg. That puts it somewhere in the Bucknell, Lafayette, F&M mix. I'd lean more to the F&M side now, but I also think it may have the highest ceiling of any of those schools.

Kenyon is throwing a lot of $ into building up an already stunning campus (library and dorms in particular). I don't see Denison gaining much ground with them. For the others, yes. I think the niche for Denison is that they are a SLAC with collectively moderate political views (read not-Woke) which contrasts wildly with Oberlin.

I consider Kenyon more cerebral, but I also see a lot of the athletic recruits (apart from swim/dive) reconsidering Kenyon for Denison when it's clear that 1/3 of the student population are NARPS with pink hair.

Anonymous wrote:Okay…

truly. huge yawn. Hey let's start a thread on Otterbein College being overlooked, while OP is at it!

Usnwr rankings are especially meaningless now.

I’ve noticed this too. Back in the day, I got into Denison and Wooster, and was rejected from Oberlin. Nowadays, I think I could get into Oberlin but probably not Denison. Denison seems to be doing better than PA liberal arts schools, which seem similar. I think it was eventually pass Kenyon too, in maybe 10 years. Kenyon is attracts a lot of English students and has a pretty low percentage of STEM students, which I think hurts it nowadays. But it’s not falling like Oberlin. I guess we’ll see too if Wooster ever moves past Oberlin too.

OP is either a Denison booster with a kid there or a right-wing Oberlin hater. No one just sits around ruminating on the rankings of small schools in Ohio.

Okay…

Ohio has always had amazing choices for kids wanting to attend an LAC, but I've noticed that the pecking order for those schools seems to have shifted in recent years (and might still be shifting).

When I was applying to colleges, back in the prehistoric days of the 1990s, the order was clear cut: Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison, Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, with pretty even spacing between them.

A couple of decades and change later, the only two schools that seem to have retained their positions are Wooster and OWU at the bottom (though both are still fabulous schools). Kenyon zoomed past Oberlin years ago, and more recently, so has Denison. Now it looks like Denison is closing the gap with Kenyon and could be considered the top LAC in Ohio in the near future. And could Oberlin eventually fall below Wooster, which seems to be getting more popular with quirky, intellectual kids who don't want crazy woke SJW?

Based on USNWR, the order of the top five at this very moment is Kenyon, Denison, Oberlin, Wooster, OWU. But where would you put your money if you were investing in one of these schools for the long haul? And which would you avoid? It's an easy choice for me. I'm rolling with Denison and avoiding Oberlin at all costs.