Send your kid to a Catholic school. That’s the only place that gave me actual data that wasn’t computer based. Those As he got in public school were BS.

OP, many teachers will tell you it’s no big deal, but I’m happy to see that you are instead listening to your feeling as to whether that is in fact true for your daughter.

Anonymous wrote:I would assume 39th percentile is in the average range. Did you look at the subtests to see how she is performing in each category? For example, if she is low in geometry, that might have no impact on the module she's currently working on. But regardless, I wouldn't have great concern over an average score and being told that she is doing well in class. It seems like you are creating issues that aren't there.

I did look at the subtests.

She's low in Geometry and Measurement and Data.

I'm not creating an issue that isn't there. I spelled out the evidence I'd gathered. IMO, the teacher should not be telling me she's doing "well." I think she's "doing ok" or "within the average to good range" would be more accurate. I recognize there's some subjectivity in how you interpret "well," but I take a student doing "well" to mean there's nothing to be concerned about. And clearly, that's not the case for my daughter.

Anonymous wrote:I would assume 39th percentile is in the average range. Did you look at the subtests to see how she is performing in each category? For example, if she is low in geometry, that might have no impact on the module she's currently working on. But regardless, I wouldn't have great concern over an average score and being told that she is doing well in class. It seems like you are creating issues that aren't there.

Part of this is due to MCPS not having plus or minus grading. If her grade was a B-, for example, that would accurately flag to me that my daughter is doing ok, but she's on the cusp, and without some extra support, she could fall into the C range, or that she really is in the C range but due to grading generosity, she's rounded up to a B. There's a big difference between a kid who's at 80% versus 89%, but the report cards don't really reflect that kind of nuance.

And to be clear, I don't have GREAT concern. She's just below grade level. Which means that with some enrichment supports, she should be able to get back on grade level and above. But I fail to see how ignoring that reality is superior to noticing the trend and giving her some enrichment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mathnasium has a strong financial incentive to tell you that your kid is behind at the beginning and then, after months of classes there, they will probably proudly announce that she is fixed, thanks to them!

I wouldn’t assume that the teacher is hiding something and mathnasium is the objective arbiter here.

+1 exactly. I wouldn’t trust their “expertise”

Your daughter is fine. Please I do hope you aren’t putting undue pressure on her- then she will absolutely learn to hate the subject. She will receive plenty of math support if needed in middle and high.

I'm the OP and this mindset, which seems to mirror the status quo among MCPS staff and leadership, is dangerous.

Evidence shows that putting off fixing math deficiencies only compounds the problems, which is precisely why black and brown children underperform in middle and high school compared to their white and Asian counterparts. Getting the fundamentals right and early in elementary is a critical building block to math success in middle and high school.

I would assume 39th percentile is in the average range. Did you look at the subtests to see how she is performing in each category? For example, if she is low in geometry, that might have no impact on the module she's currently working on. But regardless, I wouldn't have great concern over an average score and being told that she is doing well in class. It seems like you are creating issues that aren't there.

Anonymous wrote:Mathnasium has a strong financial incentive to tell you that your kid is behind at the beginning and then, after months of classes there, they will probably proudly announce that she is fixed, thanks to them!

I wouldn’t assume that the teacher is hiding something and mathnasium is the objective arbiter here.

I can accept that Mathnasium has a vest financial incentive here, but their assessment is not the only data point I'm using to draw the conclusions I'm drawing.

To recap what I stated in my original post:

1) I'm using the MAP-M scores, which MCPS administers. She's been on a downward traectory for the last three marking periods from her peak, when she was in the 71st percentile.

2) Her frustration and struggle with some homework assignments

3) The fact that she got a C and D on her math tests/quizzes for the first time

4) The Mathnasium assessment, which matches what MAP-M found. And no, they did not have access to her MAP-M results, so it's not like they manipulated it to match

So with all of that evidence, why I should ignore that she's below grade level when multiple data points tell me she is?

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will not help slightly below average kids. It's all on you as the parent. As a result, they have to minimize any data that would support your child needs some extra assistance and continue to engage in grade inflation. If you're daughter consistently scored at say, the 15th percentile or below-you might get a little more support. They don't even have the resources to actually help kids who are really struggling.

This is OP and that's my read on the situation. Compared to other kids who are worse than my daughter, they consider her to be fine. And because she's just below grade level performance, they don't see the big deal.

That math company is different math. We are not seeing grade inflation.

Anonymous wrote:Mathnasium has a strong financial incentive to tell you that your kid is behind at the beginning and then, after months of classes there, they will probably proudly announce that she is fixed, thanks to them!

I wouldn’t assume that the teacher is hiding something and mathnasium is the objective arbiter here.

+1 exactly. I wouldn’t trust their “expertise”

Your daughter is fine. Please I do hope you aren’t putting undue pressure on her- then she will absolutely learn to hate the subject. She will receive plenty of math support if needed in middle and high.

Mathnasium has a strong financial incentive to tell you that your kid is behind at the beginning and then, after months of classes there, they will probably proudly announce that she is fixed, thanks to them!

I wouldn’t assume that the teacher is hiding something and mathnasium is the objective arbiter here.

MCPS will not help slightly below average kids. It's all on you as the parent. As a result, they have to minimize any data that would support your child needs some extra assistance and continue to engage in grade inflation. If you're daughter consistently scored at say, the 15th percentile or below-you might get a little more support. They don't even have the resources to actually help kids who are really struggling.

If your daughter is doing well on her tests and quizzes and getting A’s and B’s why would the teacher be worried?

Proctor the MAP test one day and see how many kids fall asleep and click through randomly. They don't take it seriously. It does include things that haven't been taught yet, she's right. The kind of grading you want is standards based. Which I agree with. Get MCPS to change it and train teachers how to use it. 🤷‍♀️

So my DD is a 5th grader and math has never been her strongest subject. But she's always done well academically overall.

I understand in elementary school that the bar for As and Bs is not as high as it is in middle and elementary, but my DD has gotten nothing but As and Bs in math throughout her elementary schooling. However, I looked at her latest MAP-M score and she's in the 39th percentile and below the district average. At our parent-teacher conference, I raised this point to her teacher and specifically asked how she would adjust my daughter's math instruction to get her to either meeting the MCPS average or above.

The teacher basically argued that I don't need to worry about the MAP-M score because it tests things that they either brush over in the curriculum quickly or that they just haven't gotten to yet. That answer didn't really square with me because my daughter has struggled with some of the math homework at home. So I know there are some gaps that make independent math work challenging for her. And yet, she consistently gets As and Bs in math each marking period.

I did see she got a C and a D on one quiz each this school year, which was a first for her, but the teacher didn't use those quizzes as evidence of any kind of problem. She basically thought my daughter was fine and that I shouldn't worry about the MAP-M score being in the 39th percentile.

I decided to get my daughter evaluated at Mathnasium and guess what? Their assessment matched what she'd gotten on the MAP-M score: That she was just below grade level. The good news is, I have the resources to invest in the enrichment at Mathnasium to get her back on grade level, but it's a shame that's the only way to get my daughter back on track. Even worse, the classroom grades my daughter is receiving on report cards don't even accurately flag the severity of the issue to allow me as a parent to understand that she needs support. Only the MAP-M score flagged this for me. And when I brought it up with the teacher, she basically made it clear she didn't put too much weight into them.

I don't understand why a teacher would grade in a way that doesn't accurately denote the deficiencies in the student's performance AND simultaneously dismiss what MAP is saying. Teachers, can you explain why this happens? I suspect it's due to pushes from admin to keep grades at a certain level (yes, me and my daughter are non-white and the majority of kids at my daughter's school are non-white too), so I can probably surmise why the grade inflation is happening, but I don't understand ignoring the MAP data.