Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry you're going through this. I went through something similar with my son. He was all rage and arbitrary refusal and I'd get so angry I'd have to leave the room or I was afraid I'd hit him. Punishment did nothing. Nothing helped until we changed his meds. Turns out most of his problem was actually anxiety - it just presented as rage because that's how his brain processes those feelings - and his adhd meds were making it worse. Now he's on Prozac and off stimulants and we're in a pretty good place, but it took a ton of work.

As for how I dealt with it, well it took a year of seeing a therapist who specialized in treating parents of kids with special needs. The insight that helped me the most was realizing that he really couldn't help it. From the outside it looked like he was being defiant and spiteful, but inside he was basically constantly panicking and that's just how it came out. Don't know if that's what's going on with your kid, but it's worth checking out.

Good luck.

NP here, but how did you find out about the anxiety? I suspect something very similar with my DS, but his prior neuropsych showed up very typical levels of anxiety. I don't think he feels anxiety in the sense of being worried in general or feeling scared... but something more like discomfort and a subconscious fear. He has ASD, so that also impacts how he is reporting his feelings (and registering them). We are seeing things that suggest anxiety, but I'm not sure how to figure out whether this is something meds would really help with or not.

i have exact same q.

Hugs, OP. We deal with something similar every morning. The only thing I have found is that disengaging and being supportive rather than fighting helps. Yes, we are a few minutes late to school, but getting upset doesn't speed things up, and if I am patient, we can end up 5 minutes late and everyone in a good mood. Sometimes it is more than that and we all get mad, but not usually.

I would suggest working with the therapist more on it. We tried a reward thing where he got something for getting out the door on time. Punishment doesn't work for him, but that helped a little. Might be worth a try.

I don't think the other PPs' level of concern on this is necessarily warranted - some people seem to be going with a nuclear option, but I think there is a way to make this work without anything too drastic. But I hear you on the getting angry part. It's okay to feel that way. Hugs.

Anonymous wrote:So sorry you're going through this. I went through something similar with my son. He was all rage and arbitrary refusal and I'd get so angry I'd have to leave the room or I was afraid I'd hit him. Punishment did nothing. Nothing helped until we changed his meds. Turns out most of his problem was actually anxiety - it just presented as rage because that's how his brain processes those feelings - and his adhd meds were making it worse. Now he's on Prozac and off stimulants and we're in a pretty good place, but it took a ton of work.

As for how I dealt with it, well it took a year of seeing a therapist who specialized in treating parents of kids with special needs. The insight that helped me the most was realizing that he really couldn't help it. From the outside it looked like he was being defiant and spiteful, but inside he was basically constantly panicking and that's just how it came out. Don't know if that's what's going on with your kid, but it's worth checking out.

Good luck.

NP here, but how did you find out about the anxiety? I suspect something very similar with my DS, but his prior neuropsych showed up very typical levels of anxiety. I don't think he feels anxiety in the sense of being worried in general or feeling scared... but something more like discomfort and a subconscious fear. He has ASD, so that also impacts how he is reporting his feelings (and registering them). We are seeing things that suggest anxiety, but I'm not sure how to figure out whether this is something meds would really help with or not.

Anonymous wrote:Send her to boarding school.

Not a helpful response unless you dont want any further relationship

Anonymous wrote:So sorry you're going through this. I went through something similar with my son. He was all rage and arbitrary refusal and I'd get so angry I'd have to leave the room or I was afraid I'd hit him. Punishment did nothing. Nothing helped until we changed his meds. Turns out most of his problem was actually anxiety - it just presented as rage because that's how his brain processes those feelings - and his adhd meds were making it worse. Now he's on Prozac and off stimulants and we're in a pretty good place, but it took a ton of work.

As for how I dealt with it, well it took a year of seeing a therapist who specialized in treating parents of kids with special needs. The insight that helped me the most was realizing that he really couldn't help it. From the outside it looked like he was being defiant and spiteful, but inside he was basically constantly panicking and that's just how it came out. Don't know if that's what's going on with your kid, but it's worth checking out.

Good luck.

Please post the therapist’s name. We need a therapist with experience working with families with complex kids.

So sorry you're going through this. I went through something similar with my son. He was all rage and arbitrary refusal and I'd get so angry I'd have to leave the room or I was afraid I'd hit him. Punishment did nothing. Nothing helped until we changed his meds. Turns out most of his problem was actually anxiety - it just presented as rage because that's how his brain processes those feelings - and his adhd meds were making it worse. Now he's on Prozac and off stimulants and we're in a pretty good place, but it took a ton of work.

As for how I dealt with it, well it took a year of seeing a therapist who specialized in treating parents of kids with special needs. The insight that helped me the most was realizing that he really couldn't help it. From the outside it looked like he was being defiant and spiteful, but inside he was basically constantly panicking and that's just how it came out. Don't know if that's what's going on with your kid, but it's worth checking out.

Good luck.

Maybe she needs different meds and/or a different therapist. Are you present for the thereapy sessions? what kind of feedback are you getting from the therapist? Do they integrate family members in the sessions?

What is happening at school? Any changes? Any peer issues?

Any number of things can trigger school refusal.

Find a therapist who does parent coaching to help you navigate situations like you describe. You might also want to consider a DBT program.

If this is a drastic behavior that happens regularly, that means the meds are not doing their job, it's time to adjust or revise.

As children grow and go through puberty it's common to need a meds adjustment. If you don't find your child's provider responsive on this, you need a second opinion or look into switching.

Send her to boarding school.

You need help in the home for the kid. Ask the school about how to access that. Also, when your kid is reasonably calm, explain that her not getting up for school is causing stress on everyone, and just staying at home will cause the legal system to intervene.

I would take the phone for the day if she doesn’t get up and get to school on time. She can sleep in her clothes. If she does get up, I’d pay her, while keeping track of the money if you worry drugs are a possible thing.

I’d take her door off the hinges, because she won’t like it, but she’s not able to get up, so she needs noise from the hallway to help her wake up.

I’d ask the school counselor to talk to her about it, because she needs to be on time.

If it’s meds that make it hard to get up, talk to the doctor and see what timing you can adjust. If she takes a stimulant, wakes her up early and get it in her, and then it might be easier for her to wake up.

She might need an earlier bedtime, and I’m assuming all electronics are out of her room at night.

These are easy for me to say, but hard for you to do, I know.

I’d also look for a therapist for you and the family.

It could be that she does need residential treatment, but I know how hard that is.

Be frank with the school about what is going on. They have quite likely had similar students.

While the siblings are doing the right thing, praise and reward them, too, to acknowledge their stress.

I’m sorry this is happening.

this sounds a little mean but is there anything you can take away until the behavior improves? at a certain point it has to have a negative impact until the motivation to change is there. I dont mean be mean, but some sort of impact

It sounds like you have a lot going on and I’d find a good BCBA that can work with you to help find solutions. Find someone that can come to your home and observe and address this behavior directly rather than just working in office with them.

Residential?

DD is a teen with ADHD, anxiety and a lot of defiance. We have two other kids, one of whom is also a teen, and can sometimes rebel at things but DD's behavior is really out of the norm. She yells, screams, insults, throws things and blames everything that goes wrong in her life on someone else. Has been in therapy and on meds for years. Her behavior has a cascading impact on everyone else. She refuses to get up for school almost every day and it makes siblings late to school and me late to work and upends everything we had scheduled. She goes to a private that she needs and there's no public transportation there and if I don't take her she just won't go to school. One time I tried to tell her I would call her a taxi and she just got back in bed and said she would rather sleep the whole day anyway.

Every morning I feel so stressed by this that I either want to scream at her or just give up and break down and cry. We have a therapist trying to help but it's not working and it's been months of this torture. What do you do or tell yourself so that you don't become really resentful of your child and start screaming at them? This is not sustainable.