Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. You want my 15 year old, who along with all her friends, thinks money comes from “the government” to vote locally. On things like bond referendums. Or people who got here 3 months ago, haven’t paid a penny in taxes yet but are already net consumers of public benefits, to elect politicians who will give them more free stuff.

Yeah great. Great plan.

JFC, we’re doomed.

Sure, if you want to talk about specific examples:

- I would absolute feel confident letting a 16.5yo who holds a part-time job, pays taxes, drives on our roads, and spends time 5 days a week in school learning about civics, current events, and exercising their reasoning and judgment skills have a say in local representation.

- I would absolutely let a lawful permanent resident homeowner and small business owner who has been here for 8 years have a voice in local politics.

So make each registered voter demonstrate their knowledge of civics and that they are contributing to society by working paying taxes?

PP here, no not at all.

I was responding to the poster who seemed to indicate that intelligence and paying taxes had something to do with it. *If* it does (which it shouldn't) then lines can't be drawn on citizenship and the difference between 16 and 18.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure. You want my 15 year old, who along with all her friends, thinks money comes from “the government” to vote locally. On things like bond referendums. Or people who got here 3 months ago, haven’t paid a penny in taxes yet but are already net consumers of public benefits, to elect politicians who will give them more free stuff.

Yeah great. Great plan.

JFC, we’re doomed.

Sure, if you want to talk about specific examples:

- I would absolute feel confident letting a 16.5yo who holds a part-time job, pays taxes, drives on our roads, and spends time 5 days a week in school learning about civics, current events, and exercising their reasoning and judgment skills have a say in local representation.

- I would absolutely let a lawful permanent resident homeowner and small business owner who has been here for 8 years have a voice in local politics.

So make each registered voter demonstrate their knowledge of civics and that they are contributing to society by working paying taxes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The D.C. Youth Rehabilitation Act allows courts to ignore minimum sentences and seal records for anyone under 25, on the basis that adults under the age of 25 don’t have a fully developed brain that can figure out what right and wrong is.

So activists yell that 24 year olds can’t figure out that assaulting people is wrong, and then turn around and claim 16 year olds are mature enough to choose our political leadership? These people have zero logical consistency. None. Their whole premise seems to be “let me do whatever I want, let me have zero consequences, let other people pay for it, and have the government crack down hard on anyone I dislike.”

Something something hot decisions something something cold decisions. It's completely different situations. Jargon jargon, it's fine.

Pfft. Those "psychologists" and "scientists" are so full of it. You and I know that the only real things are common sense, God, and Sean Hannity.

Anonymous wrote:The D.C. Youth Rehabilitation Act allows courts to ignore minimum sentences and seal records for anyone under 25, on the basis that adults under the age of 25 don’t have a fully developed brain that can figure out what right and wrong is.

So activists yell that 24 year olds can’t figure out that assaulting people is wrong, and then turn around and claim 16 year olds are mature enough to choose our political leadership? These people have zero logical consistency. None. Their whole premise seems to be “let me do whatever I want, let me have zero consequences, let other people pay for it, and have the government crack down hard on anyone I dislike.”

Something something hot decisions something something cold decisions. It's completely different situations. Jargon jargon, it's fine.

Anonymous wrote:The D.C. Youth Rehabilitation Act allows courts to ignore minimum sentences and seal records for anyone under 25, on the basis that adults under the age of 25 don’t have a fully developed brain that can figure out what right and wrong is.

So activists yell that 24 year olds can’t figure out that assaulting people is wrong, and then turn around and claim 16 year olds are mature enough to choose our political leadership? These people have zero logical consistency. None. Their whole premise seems to be “let me do whatever I want, let me have zero consequences, let other people pay for it, and have the government crack down hard on anyone I dislike.”

No and no.

And felons should have to earn back their voting rights, by maintaining a clean record for 10 years after time served.

The D.C. Youth Rehabilitation Act allows courts to ignore minimum sentences and seal records for anyone under 25, on the basis that adults under the age of 25 don’t have a fully developed brain that can figure out what right and wrong is.

So activists yell that 24 year olds can’t figure out that assaulting people is wrong, and then turn around and claim 16 year olds are mature enough to choose our political leadership? These people have zero logical consistency. None. Their whole premise seems to be “let me do whatever I want, let me have zero consequences, let other people pay for it, and have the government crack down hard on anyone I dislike.”

Anonymous wrote:Sure. You want my 15 year old, who along with all her friends, thinks money comes from “the government” to vote locally. On things like bond referendums. Or people who got here 3 months ago, haven’t paid a penny in taxes yet but are already net consumers of public benefits, to elect politicians who will give them more free stuff.

Yeah great. Great plan.

JFC, we’re doomed.

Sure, if you want to talk about specific examples:

- I would absolute feel confident letting a 16.5yo who holds a part-time job, pays taxes, drives on our roads, and spends time 5 days a week in school learning about civics, current events, and exercising their reasoning and judgment skills have a say in local representation.

- I would absolutely let a lawful permanent resident homeowner and small business owner who has been here for 8 years have a voice in local politics.

If anything we should be discussing raising the voting age, not lowering it. Maybe 25? With the draft age raised accordingly, too, of course.

Also, if you didn’t pay taxes, you probably shouldn’t vote. Trump paid nothing in taxes - why should he get a vote? He has no skin in the game. If you don’t pay taxes, you shouldn’t be allowed to say how taxes you didn’t pay get spent.

No and no

Sure. You want my 15 year old, who along with all her friends, thinks money comes from “the government” to vote locally. On things like bond referendums. Or people who got here 3 months ago, haven’t paid a penny in taxes yet but are already net consumers of public benefits, to elect politicians who will give them more free stuff.

Yeah great. Great plan.

JFC, we’re doomed.

No.

No. Voting is a privilege of citizenship

No and no.

I take the Declaration of Independence seriously when it says governments derive their powers from the consent of the governed, which would include not only citizens but also residents with evidence of long term attachment to the community. The Virginia Declaration of Rights states it this way:

"all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent or that of their representatives so elected"

For that reason, I'd extend it to green card holders for sure, and possibly other types of non-citizens. Historically, this wasn't uncommon in the US.

Obviously localities can't do this for federal elections, but I'd be in support of granting as much suffrage as possible for people who show that they intend to reside in the US for the long-term.

I feel less strongly about age. Obviously somewhere between birth and age, say, 25, you're able to participate fully. Whether that line is 18 or 16 feels pretty arbitrary.

I am leaning towards that but would like to see your response