Anonymous
10/23/2023 16:47
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I used to teach for Princeton Review. For all the money you spend, what you get is someone holding your kid accountable for doing practice tests, and someone who can explain mistakes.
You can’t get the reading section up much. Either your kid is a reader, and has learned to read critically. Or not.
You may be able to get English up. The issue is whether your kid has issues with the test format (which can take some getting used to) or the content, which is also hard to teach.
Math is much easier to get up/ make gains. But you can also get math up by having your kid review the relevant sections of Kahn Academy for the questions they miss.
If your kid is self disciplined enough, you can buy the books, take the tests, understand what you miss, either because a parent or Khan Academy explains it. And get SAT prep done for $100, and lie.y hit close to the score your kid would get with an actual tutor.
If you have a dynamic where you are arguing with your kid 24/7 about college stuff, it might be worth the cost for a third party.
Also, how much the kid can get their score up depends on why the score is lower Bs weak reader will remained a weak reader. A kid who struggles with the format and timing on the reading section can move their score a lot more. Similarly, a kid who has forgotten some two year old math or needs to pace themselves better can move the needle a lot more than a kid who never really “got” Algebra II.
The one section I think a tutor can be useful on is ACT science, if the initial score is low. Starting with, helping the kid understand it doesn’t test science knowledge, or even mny science skills. It’s about reading charts and graphs that have science words attached. If you kid has trouble with that skill, targeted tutoring could help.
But, having taught PR, I would never pay for it for my kids. Yes, I did know how to help them. But, most of the class is taking and retaking tests and explaining why kids missed what they did. And the tests are out there. And Khan Academy can explain the concepts.
Very helpful, thanks. OP. Kid is in 8th grade and in all advanced classes, straight A student, but never reads for pleasure. Reads a lot for class and does well in those classes but I never see him crack a book voluntarily. So I worry about verbal SAT and wonder if tutoring now for prep could help him.
PP and nope. Starting in 8th is ridiculous. You’ll burn your kid out and they aren’t ready for it yet. Also, 8th grade is too late to turn a kid into a bookworm. And the reading sections are largely academic. You aren’t analyzing Harry Potter. The best you can do is encourage high school honors English and History classes, especially those known for heavy reading and written analysis. My DD had combined/ team taught World Civ class that was excellent, and considered a bump above taking Honors English and Honors World History.
The other thing my kids did that I’m convinced helped a lot at SAT / ACT time was debate. But again, you can’t turn a kid who hates debate into a debate kid.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 16:32
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:I used to teach for Princeton Review. For all the money you spend, what you get is someone holding your kid accountable for doing practice tests, and someone who can explain mistakes.
You can’t get the reading section up much. Either your kid is a reader, and has learned to read critically. Or not.
You may be able to get English up. The issue is whether your kid has issues with the test format (which can take some getting used to) or the content, which is also hard to teach.
Math is much easier to get up/ make gains. But you can also get math up by having your kid review the relevant sections of Kahn Academy for the questions they miss.
If your kid is self disciplined enough, you can buy the books, take the tests, understand what you miss, either because a parent or Khan Academy explains it. And get SAT prep done for $100, and lie.y hit close to the score your kid would get with an actual tutor.
If you have a dynamic where you are arguing with your kid 24/7 about college stuff, it might be worth the cost for a third party.
Also, how much the kid can get their score up depends on why the score is lower Bs weak reader will remained a weak reader. A kid who struggles with the format and timing on the reading section can move their score a lot more. Similarly, a kid who has forgotten some two year old math or needs to pace themselves better can move the needle a lot more than a kid who never really “got” Algebra II.
The one section I think a tutor can be useful on is ACT science, if the initial score is low. Starting with, helping the kid understand it doesn’t test science knowledge, or even mny science skills. It’s about reading charts and graphs that have science words attached. If you kid has trouble with that skill, targeted tutoring could help.
But, having taught PR, I would never pay for it for my kids. Yes, I did know how to help them. But, most of the class is taking and retaking tests and explaining why kids missed what they did. And the tests are out there. And Khan Academy can explain the concepts.
Very helpful, thanks. OP. Kid is in 8th grade and in all advanced classes, straight A student, but never reads for pleasure. Reads a lot for class and does well in those classes but I never see him crack a book voluntarily. So I worry about verbal SAT and wonder if tutoring now for prep could help him.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 15:14
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
I used to teach for Princeton Review. For all the money you spend, what you get is someone holding your kid accountable for doing practice tests, and someone who can explain mistakes.
You can’t get the reading section up much. Either your kid is a reader, and has learned to read critically. Or not.
You may be able to get English up. The issue is whether your kid has issues with the test format (which can take some getting used to) or the content, which is also hard to teach.
Math is much easier to get up/ make gains. But you can also get math up by having your kid review the relevant sections of Kahn Academy for the questions they miss.
If your kid is self disciplined enough, you can buy the books, take the tests, understand what you miss, either because a parent or Khan Academy explains it. And get SAT prep done for $100, and lie.y hit close to the score your kid would get with an actual tutor.
If you have a dynamic where you are arguing with your kid 24/7 about college stuff, it might be worth the cost for a third party.
Also, how much the kid can get their score up depends on why the score is lower Bs weak reader will remained a weak reader. A kid who struggles with the format and timing on the reading section can move their score a lot more. Similarly, a kid who has forgotten some two year old math or needs to pace themselves better can move the needle a lot more than a kid who never really “got” Algebra II.
The one section I think a tutor can be useful on is ACT science, if the initial score is low. Starting with, helping the kid understand it doesn’t test science knowledge, or even mny science skills. It’s about reading charts and graphs that have science words attached. If you kid has trouble with that skill, targeted tutoring could help.
But, having taught PR, I would never pay for it for my kids. Yes, I did know how to help them. But, most of the class is taking and retaking tests and explaining why kids missed what they did. And the tests are out there. And Khan Academy can explain the concepts.
You can’t get the reading section up much. Either your kid is a reader, and has learned to read critically. Or not.
You may be able to get English up. The issue is whether your kid has issues with the test format (which can take some getting used to) or the content, which is also hard to teach.
Math is much easier to get up/ make gains. But you can also get math up by having your kid review the relevant sections of Kahn Academy for the questions they miss.
If your kid is self disciplined enough, you can buy the books, take the tests, understand what you miss, either because a parent or Khan Academy explains it. And get SAT prep done for $100, and lie.y hit close to the score your kid would get with an actual tutor.
If you have a dynamic where you are arguing with your kid 24/7 about college stuff, it might be worth the cost for a third party.
Also, how much the kid can get their score up depends on why the score is lower Bs weak reader will remained a weak reader. A kid who struggles with the format and timing on the reading section can move their score a lot more. Similarly, a kid who has forgotten some two year old math or needs to pace themselves better can move the needle a lot more than a kid who never really “got” Algebra II.
The one section I think a tutor can be useful on is ACT science, if the initial score is low. Starting with, helping the kid understand it doesn’t test science knowledge, or even mny science skills. It’s about reading charts and graphs that have science words attached. If you kid has trouble with that skill, targeted tutoring could help.
But, having taught PR, I would never pay for it for my kids. Yes, I did know how to help them. But, most of the class is taking and retaking tests and explaining why kids missed what they did. And the tests are out there. And Khan Academy can explain the concepts.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 15:10
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Generally start no more than 3 months before the test. "Years in advance" is too much, they'll get burned out.
You might get 100 to 150 points, but that may not be the tutor so much as the fact that using the tutor forces the kid to take lots of practice tests. If the kid practiced constantly with tests available online, that would usually provide the same benefit as a tutor.
Yes to this. I'm a former Kaplan tutor. You can absolutely get someone up by 100-200 points with a few months of tutoring (which mostly consists of learning strategies, and taking tests, going over every problem they get wrong to figure out why, and making sure they know how to get it right next time.)
Don't start in 9th, it's a waste of time, but DO encourage them to read challenging material and be aware of vocabulary/learn Latin and Greek roots.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 15:01
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Well, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. You’ll get gains from tutoring but not from 50th percentile to 99th. Depends on your goals and where you’re starting, if it’s worth it.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 15:00
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Someone commented on another thread: "I’m an SAT tutor. You can’t tutor a mediocre kid into a 1500+ kid. Sorry, but don’t waste your money."
So how much does it really help? And when is it useful to begin tutoring? For example, if you hired a tutor for your 9th grader and have him work with the coach weekly for a couple of years, is your 9th grader going to do worlds better than he otherwise would have due to the prep?
An SAT tutor typically needs to concentrate on Math and English.
The Math section of the SAT mainly assesses math skills at a 7th and 8th-grade level, mostly arithmetic, algebra 1, geometry, with a touch of basic statistics and series/sequences. It does not cover topics like trigonometry, algebra 2, pre-calculus, or the majority of 9th to 12th-grade math subjects. Therefore, hiring an SAT tutor in 9th grade might involve rehashing middle school math for three years in high school, which is unnecessary unless the student struggles significantly with middle school math.
In contrast, the SAT English section demands at least a 10th-grade level of English proficiency, particularly in reading comprehension, essay argument analysis, vocabulary, and grammar. This is the area where an SAT tutor or a high school English tutor can provide valuable assistance. Most of these language skills are developed through extensive reading of grade-level books, and a tutor can aid in vocabulary, grammar, and essay writing skill development, which is a multi-year process.
While there are numerous resources available for practice tests and test-taking strategies, foundational competency in Math and English is where tutor assistance is truly beneficial.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:59
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
I recall reading that a student typically could only improve 100-200 points with studying/prep. So there's not a ton they can do. But I don't know how sound that data point is.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:53
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Someone commented on another thread: "I’m an SAT tutor. You can’t tutor a mediocre kid into a 1500+ kid. Sorry, but don’t waste your money."
So how much does it really help? And when is it useful to begin tutoring? For example, if you hired a tutor for your 9th grader and have him work with the coach weekly for a couple of years, is your 9th grader going to do worlds better than he otherwise would have due to the prep?
A good one-to-one tutor can help a kid achieve their actual level. But yes, nobody can tutor a kid to a 1500+ if they are not that intelligent.
I would do the tutoring during junior year and I wouldn't spend too much time/energy.
For example, my kid started Feb of junior year (it was covid so late). Their tutor had them take a real test at 8am on a Sat (from home). Tutor graded it and went over the areas they had errors. My kid had a 1320(620V/700M). Recommended 4 hours of tutoring: 1 for math and 3 for verbal areas. Each hour focused on a specific area, identified the silly mistakes/careless errors and gave pointers for how to approach the test (the "tricks" of testing). My kid then took another practice test 2 weeks later (after the 4 hours of tutoring and maybe 2 hours total of at home studying/going over the info learned in the tutoring). My kid landed at 1480 (700/V, 780M).
Could have stopped then. But did a few more tutoring sessions and practice tests then took two real SATs. In total took 10 hours of paid tutoring, 1 Baseline SAT and 4 more practice tests graded by tutor. Every test after the baseline was near 1480. So basically, those 4 hours of targeting tutoring and 2 hours of my kid practicing/studying on their own and my kid reached their ultimate score.
That is what a good tutor should do---get you to your best potential score quickly. Sure could my kid score higher? Probably, if they did intensive verbal tutoring and worked to not make 1-2 careless mistakes in math (they are capable of an 800 and did on one practice test). But would it be worth 10-20 hours of tutoring and intensive studying to get another 40-60 points on verbal? We said nope that is crazy. And were done.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:36
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Generally start no more than 3 months before the test. "Years in advance" is too much, they'll get burned out.
You might get 100 to 150 points, but that may not be the tutor so much as the fact that using the tutor forces the kid to take lots of practice tests. If the kid practiced constantly with tests available online, that would usually provide the same benefit as a tutor.
Agree with this.
One thing to note/comment is that some kids just won't be motivated to "do the work and all the practice tests" without that tutor's expectations. That was my kid.
And to the person who said something like "You can't take mediocre and turn it into 1500+." Well, DUH! But you can go from 1150 to 1250 and no one would complain about that boost.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:33
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Someone commented on another thread: "I’m an SAT tutor. You can’t tutor a mediocre kid into a 1500+ kid. Sorry, but don’t waste your money."
So how much does it really help? And when is it useful to begin tutoring? For example, if you hired a tutor for your 9th grader and have him work with the coach weekly for a couple of years, is your 9th grader going to do worlds better than he otherwise would have due to the prep?
While this is true, it depends on how long you tutor and why the child is mediocre. I used to teach SAT and LSAT for Princeton Review and Kaplan. The tests can be gamed by becoming familiar with the techniques used and patterns of questions. There are kids who aren't able to pick up on it very well no matter how much they practice, but those are outliers. Generally speaking, a kid who has been a good student historically (and has good reading habits) is going to be able to raise his/her score significantly with practice. For that kind of kid, doing well is really just a matter of how much time and focus they put into it. And spending a lot of money isn't necessary. Getting a test prep book and lots of practice exams is usually all it takes. For kids that aren't good self-motivators, taking classes will help them focus (and that's where $$ is usually spent).
It also helps if the parents were good test takers, and then can help explain things and keep them motivated to do focus.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:32
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Generally start no more than 3 months before the test. "Years in advance" is too much, they'll get burned out.
You might get 100 to 150 points, but that may not be the tutor so much as the fact that using the tutor forces the kid to take lots of practice tests. If the kid practiced constantly with tests available online, that would usually provide the same benefit as a tutor.
You might get 100 to 150 points, but that may not be the tutor so much as the fact that using the tutor forces the kid to take lots of practice tests. If the kid practiced constantly with tests available online, that would usually provide the same benefit as a tutor.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:31
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:You don't hire a tutor for a 9th grader. You don't grind your way to a high score. Waste of money and your 9th grader's time and trust.
A few months of prep will get your student in the ballpark of the best they can do. Wait until after sophomore year for a fall junior year test date.
Thanks. Can you elaborate? Why can you not grind your way to a high score?
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:29
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
The randomized-control trials usually find that tutoring helps about 0-50 SAT points on average.
The biggest predictor of an increase in scores is that your kid WANTS to get better and will study hard.
You can't force-feed studying. (At least most people can't).
The biggest predictor of an increase in scores is that your kid WANTS to get better and will study hard.
You can't force-feed studying. (At least most people can't).
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:27
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
You don't hire a tutor for a 9th grader. You don't grind your way to a high score. Waste of money and your 9th grader's time and trust.
A few months of prep will get your student in the ballpark of the best they can do. Wait until after sophomore year for a fall junior year test date.
A few months of prep will get your student in the ballpark of the best they can do. Wait until after sophomore year for a fall junior year test date.
Anonymous
10/23/2023 14:18
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Someone commented on another thread: "I’m an SAT tutor. You can’t tutor a mediocre kid into a 1500+ kid. Sorry, but don’t waste your money."
So how much does it really help? And when is it useful to begin tutoring? For example, if you hired a tutor for your 9th grader and have him work with the coach weekly for a couple of years, is your 9th grader going to do worlds better than he otherwise would have due to the prep?
So how much does it really help? And when is it useful to begin tutoring? For example, if you hired a tutor for your 9th grader and have him work with the coach weekly for a couple of years, is your 9th grader going to do worlds better than he otherwise would have due to the prep?