Anonymous wrote:A few years ago all the database administrators started calling themselves "data scientists." Nothing changed they just rebranded. Good work to have. The actual science of it was mostly done in the 70s and 80s.

Kind of the same with "computer science." I'd say maybe 5% are actual scientists/mathematicians and 95% are tradesmen (and women).

you even call the BS stuff 'social science'

CS degree requires high level of math.

I don't think plumbing and hvac require that.

good luck getting a job without a degree

A few years ago all the database administrators started calling themselves "data scientists." Nothing changed they just rebranded. Good work to have. The actual science of it was mostly done in the 70s and 80s.

Kind of the same with "computer science." I'd say maybe 5% are actual scientists/mathematicians and 95% are tradesmen (and women).

No it is not. CS is more "white collar" and definitely not physical labor intensive like plumbing and HVAC.

This seems like a silly thing to think about. CS in college can teach you problem solving, statistics, logic and math. Those skills can be very useful outside CS. Do you need to go to college to learn math? Well, no, but you have to learn it somewhere.

I took many CS classes in college (although not a CS major). I went to law school and have been practicing for 20 years. I found the logic from CS classes, including coding, to be very helpful and transferable to general problem solving (particularly complex problems with lots of data).

CS has many branches. Some are more related to the trades than others.
People who tend to do PhDs in CS are working in more theoretical math/data analytics arenas - very intellectually heavy and nothing like the trades

Anonymous wrote:My husband was an Econ major who became an expert in computer software development at his first job. He went independent after a few years and was making $400k by his early 30s. Never took a CS course.

Yea. I'm sure it is within the realm of possibility that someone could teach themselves surgery or engineering but I wouldn't hire one to build a bridge over the Potomac or cut into my chest.

Doing plumbing or HVAC for a medical research lab or nuclear submarine is life or death stuff. Most software people are building websites or apps like Excel or AUTOCAD that licensed professionals need to use. I'd call it a trade

My husband was an Econ major who became an expert in computer software development at his first job. He went independent after a few years and was making $400k by his early 30s. Never took a CS course.

I'm a CPA. Love it!

Gray area. Strictly speaking i would agree that it is more a trade than a profession. But there are levels.

Skilled trade

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to realize the giants (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison) never even finished college. And the news is full of young people doing important work even though they are self-taught or learned at home. So, if one does not HAVE to go to college to be a software engineer then is it fair to call it a journeyman trade? To be clear you can't practice law, or be a civil engineer, or medical doctor, or a certified public accountant, etc. without earning a college degree and being licensed. That is not the case with all these software engineer jobs is it? I know there are certifications out there but they are not regulated by the government like law and medicine. And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called.

Actually, the vast majority of white collar jobs have no licensing requirements.

You selected professions that either (i) have a large number working in the profession dealing with individual consumers such as lawyers and CPAs or (ii) there are literally lives at risk for mistakes with medical or civil engineers.

There are actually many accountants that are not CPAs…your job prospects are limited but you only have to pass the CPA test to call yourself a CPA.

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to realize the giants (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison) never even finished college. And the news is full of young people doing important work even though they are self-taught or learned at home. So, if one does not HAVE to go to college to be a software engineer then is it fair to call it a journeyman trade? To be clear you can't practice law, or be a civil engineer, or medical doctor, or a certified public accountant, etc. without earning a college degree and being licensed. That is not the case with all these software engineer jobs is it? I know there are certifications out there but they are not regulated by the government like law and medicine. And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called.

Yes, it is.. So is being a surgeon. It pays well, well respected and is stimulating.

The domain you mention needing degrees and certs are professions controlled by cartels. They just erect barriers to create moat. I do all my taxes for myself and close families and basic law (e.g. simple wills) is not that difficult and I'm sure with practice (e.g. a paralegal) can do most of that work. I bet the same works for civil engr. and medical professions as well. Someone with hands on experience (and zero education in that field) can pick up pretty much anything a fancy, educated person can do in that field. It's just that they are not allowed to. Same goes for software. Anyone can learn to code in a few weeks, but it takes years of knowledge and experience to learn enough to build/support complex systems. Think about it, if a high school dropout with a month of coding exp. can do what a sr. developer at google can do, google will be filled with college dropouts getting paid $50/hr vs. educated professionals getting paid $400K. Same goes for the other 'professions'.

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to realize the giants (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison) never even finished college. And the news is full of young people doing important work even though they are self-taught or learned at home. So, if one does not HAVE to go to college to be a software engineer then is it fair to call it a journeyman trade? To be clear you can't practice law, or be a civil engineer, or medical doctor, or a certified public accountant, etc. without earning a college degree and being licensed. That is not the case with all these software engineer jobs is it? I know there are certifications out there but they are not regulated by the government like law and medicine. And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called.

Yes and no, it depends on what you do exactly. It's a large field like healthcare where there's a wide variety of jobs.

I am starting to realize the giants (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison) never even finished college. And the news is full of young people doing important work even though they are self-taught or learned at home. So, if one does not HAVE to go to college to be a software engineer then is it fair to call it a journeyman trade? To be clear you can't practice law, or be a civil engineer, or medical doctor, or a certified public accountant, etc. without earning a college degree and being licensed. That is not the case with all these software engineer jobs is it? I know there are certifications out there but they are not regulated by the government like law and medicine. And I'm not talking about actual computer science where they invent quantum machines and stuff. I'm talking about "software engineering" or however else it is called.