Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 12:45     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.


They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.


Hmm. They should have lots of tricks to elicit a grudging non-refusal of services. Otherwise, just get someone who is willing to come in. How do you think other families deal with this? Managing a dementia patient involves lots of lies, OP.





That’s not how it works there, unfortunately. Services are by the book and on the books. I can’t just hire a random person who isn’t even qualified, to show up. Also she’s have to pay for it, did I mention she has a generous pension? She’s in the top 5-10% of income there, just with the pension for herself. This isn’t a country without a safety net where kids have to fund the bills for their underinsured parents.


Which country? I’ve lived in Germany, France and the UK, and I’m having a hard time believing you.

Also, can you place her in an appropriate care home?



Germany comes very close, but I don’t think you know much about German laws and dementia care there. I am certainly more knowledgable in that area than you - given you never even lived in the country I am referring to. I lived there for over 20 years and am a qualified attorney there. I know the customs, culture etc. however I rely on my sister to organize stuff there as I am in the US. To summarize, no - the can’t force her, they can advise her, they can help as long as she SIGNS the request form. Dementia patients can sometimes really act normal for a brief 30 minutes or as long as the case management conference /visit took this morning. So they’re not coming back unless there’s a proven deterioration. This ship has sailed. My sister said she’s not even going to try with some other private service, WHICH MY MOM HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE AS WELL. She can just not let them into her house when they arrive. Also - you have no idea about how it works there. Once you are in the government system, they increase care as needed. Whatever you can’t afford, the government pays for (in home!). They never even touch your assets. So this amazing system will break down in the next 10-20 years because it’s so costly. But until then - she paid astronomical taxes and it’s her time to benefit for once. I am certainly not going to pay out of pocket for something that she has a legal right to (and it’s better than private aides to boot). I certainly won’t hire anyone unlicensed and uninsured either.


^^ sorry for the rant but I am exhausted by all this and don’t need someone who doesn’t know the laws and customs, nor the rights and benefits in that country, to lecture me on what she does or doesn’t believe.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 12:43     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.


They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.


Hmm. They should have lots of tricks to elicit a grudging non-refusal of services. Otherwise, just get someone who is willing to come in. How do you think other families deal with this? Managing a dementia patient involves lots of lies, OP.





That’s not how it works there, unfortunately. Services are by the book and on the books. I can’t just hire a random person who isn’t even qualified, to show up. Also she’s have to pay for it, did I mention she has a generous pension? She’s in the top 5-10% of income there, just with the pension for herself. This isn’t a country without a safety net where kids have to fund the bills for their underinsured parents.


Which country? I’ve lived in Germany, France and the UK, and I’m having a hard time believing you.

Also, can you place her in an appropriate care home?



Germany comes very close, but I don’t think you know much about German laws and dementia care there. I am certainly more knowledgable in that area than you - given you never even lived in the country I am referring to. I lived there for over 20 years and am a qualified attorney there. I know the customs, culture etc. however I rely on my sister to organize stuff there as I am in the US. To summarize, no - the can’t force her, they can advise her, they can help as long as she SIGNS the request form. Dementia patients can sometimes really act normal for a brief 30 minutes or as long as the case management conference /visit took this morning. So they’re not coming back unless there’s a proven deterioration. This ship has sailed. My sister said she’s not even going to try with some other private service, WHICH MY MOM HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE AS WELL. She can just not let them into her house when they arrive. Also - you have no idea about how it works there. Once you are in the government system, they increase care as needed. Whatever you can’t afford, the government pays for (in home!). They never even touch your assets. So this amazing system will break down in the next 10-20 years because it’s so costly. But until then - she paid astronomical taxes and it’s her time to benefit for once. I am certainly not going to pay out of pocket for something that she has a legal right to (and it’s better than private aides to boot). I certainly won’t hire anyone unlicensed and uninsured either.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 12:08     Subject: Parent refused home aide
It is unfortunate that your mom is unable to see the harm to your sister.

Rather than have a breakdown, your sister should consider doing much less, which may force your mom to get help. Right now, mom thinks the choices are help from a stranger or help from her daughter. She may have to rethink things if the choices are help from a stranger or very minimal help from her daughter.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 12:06     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.


They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.


Hmm. They should have lots of tricks to elicit a grudging non-refusal of services. Otherwise, just get someone who is willing to come in. How do you think other families deal with this? Managing a dementia patient involves lots of lies, OP.





That’s not how it works there, unfortunately. Services are by the book and on the books. I can’t just hire a random person who isn’t even qualified, to show up. Also she’s have to pay for it, did I mention she has a generous pension? She’s in the top 5-10% of income there, just with the pension for herself. This isn’t a country without a safety net where kids have to fund the bills for their underinsured parents.


Which country? I’ve lived in Germany, France and the UK, and I’m having a hard time believing you.

Also, can you place her in an appropriate care home?

Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 12:05     Subject: Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:Small thoughts: Make sure it is the family that is hiring the home aide. Hired by the family, reports to the family (they can, therefore, only be fired by the family). Hired and fired -- not by the patient. Yes, the patient could, I guess, lock the door and not let them in. Stuff happens.

They have seen it all. No one works with the elderly who hasn't seen it all, sees this before.


This was not our experience at all. The dementia patient can fire them. Also case managers are trained to deal with this. Aides are not people have seen it all often. It's a low paying job people take to make ends meet. You are very fortunate when you get someone who truly loves it and will be creative and you reward those people with tips if you can.

OP, are you the one who posted the person is in Europe? If so, do they have adult protective services there? You can get them to check on her. Also, do you have a case manager or social worker to coordinate care. That person may be able to ease the transition and talk her into it. They have many tricks up their sleeves, even therapeutic lies.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 11:49     Subject: Parent refused home aide
Small thoughts: Make sure it is the family that is hiring the home aide. Hired by the family, reports to the family (they can, therefore, only be fired by the family). Hired and fired -- not by the patient. Yes, the patient could, I guess, lock the door and not let them in. Stuff happens.

They have seen it all. No one works with the elderly who hasn't seen it all, sees this before.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 10:38     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.


They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.


Hmm. They should have lots of tricks to elicit a grudging non-refusal of services. Otherwise, just get someone who is willing to come in. How do you think other families deal with this? Managing a dementia patient involves lots of lies, OP.




That’s not how it works there, unfortunately. Services are by the book and on the books. I can’t just hire a random person who isn’t even qualified, to show up. Also she’s have to pay for it, did I mention she has a generous pension? She’s in the top 5-10% of income there, just with the pension for herself. This isn’t a country without a safety net where kids have to fund the bills for their underinsured parents.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:50     Subject: Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I hope the aide can come in anyway. In such situations, the plan is that the elderly person with dementia gets used to someone coming in regularly.


No, this isn’t possible from a legal perspective. This is in Europe, it’s a government agency but since there’s more than enough income, she’s pay for it. It’s a very nominal amount, and she has a huge pension. So it’s not that. I can’t have some uninsured, person just show up there. It needs to be a qualified, licensed person from an agency.


My MIL is in France, and while she has some government-covered services such as nursing, which she accepts because they've been coming for a long time, her children hired regular housecleaners to come and cook, clean, bathe and minister to her every need. One of them stays the night - they rotate. They're very nice, not formally educated, but very experienced with seniors, since this is really what they do. It's been a wonderful arrangement. The aides are managed by my oldest BIL.

I'm not clear on your parent's situation.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:46     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.


They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.


Hmm. They should have lots of tricks to elicit a grudging non-refusal of services. Otherwise, just get someone who is willing to come in. How do you think other families deal with this? Managing a dementia patient involves lots of lies, OP.


Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:44     Subject: Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:
I hope the aide can come in anyway. In such situations, the plan is that the elderly person with dementia gets used to someone coming in regularly.


No, this isn’t possible from a legal perspective. This is in Europe, it’s a government agency but since there’s more than enough income, she’s pay for it. It’s a very nominal amount, and she has a huge pension. So it’s not that. I can’t have some uninsured, person just show up there. It needs to be a qualified, licensed person from an agency.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:43     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.


They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:27     Subject: Parent refused home aide

I hope the aide can come in anyway. In such situations, the plan is that the elderly person with dementia gets used to someone coming in regularly.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:25     Subject: Re:Parent refused home aide
You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:22     Subject: Parent refused home aide
That is normal with dementia.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2023 09:20     Subject: Parent refused home aide
This is so frustrating. My sister did so much work (forms, phone calls, documents) so that my mom who had dementia would have an aide coming to the house every morning. They came this morning for the assessment, my mom acted very normal and refused the help. My mom clearly needs it, she can’t manage her own eating/self care/ etc. she is confused and forgets every little thing, has difficulty walking etc. There’s nothing we can do once my mother refuses. My sister will have a break down when she hears.