Anonymous wrote:Frankly doing any activity at a high level in high school is really intense. Sports, music, debate, STEM, all of it. Being a high achiever has its costs.

+1

Overall, it is not great for kids' development or mental health.

Frankly doing any activity at a high level in high school is really intense. Sports, music, debate, STEM, all of it. Being a high achiever has its costs.

I think you’ll find that a lot of debaters become lawyers. (I’m one.) I would say it helps with research if you’re on a team that does its own research (I was on one). But policy debate actually fosters terrible habits for public speaking — you get used to talking too fast. And there isn’t a lot of writing. Probably the number one thing it helps with is thinking quickly on your feet.

I think there’s value in doing any intense activity, even if it has nothing to do with a career goal, as long as it doesn’t become detrimental to mental health. There is value in hard work and commitment. Those traits transfer.

Anonymous wrote:My kid is on the policy debate team. Kid likes the intellectual rigor and seems to be decent at it, and yet also seems to be made miserable by the stress of tournaments. I was never involved in debate, so it's all new to me, but it seems really intense (or maybe that's just my kid?) and the wacky arguments on both side and the practice of "spreading" (basically speed talking the entire time) make the debates themselves seem incoherent. Can anyone familiar with policy debate tell me if what I'm describing sounds normal?

A lot depends on environment of his debate program, it differs from school to school.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all who weighed in. Good to know, I guess, that my kid's experience is "normal."

The former debaters might be interested in reading this Harpers piece by Tess McNulty about toxic gender dynamics in h.s. debate: https://harpers.org/archive/2022/09/both-sides-now-domination-and-abuse-on-the-high-school-debate-circuit/

As for the poster who asked "What's the point?" If you looked at any activity through the lens of "in demand skills," I think you'd find most of them lacking. What's the point of striving to run a mile in less than five minutes or putting your body (and brain) on the line for high school football? I think all activities can have a point if the student finds fulfilment in them. As PPs have noted, policy debate can work to sharpen critical thinking and writing, collaboration, public speaking and confidence.

I don't think debate fosters collaboration, to the contrary. I also think there are much better activities to foster critical thinking, writing, collaboration and confidence. I agree it's great for public speaking. I guess i don't see the upside of spending 20 hours a week on an activity that does not lead you anywhere. Or it's my failure to see where it leads you. Those kids who spend 20 hours a week on sports or music have aspirations of being great athletes and musicians, they don't do it just for the enjoyment of it - it's extremely intense.

OP here. Thanks for all who weighed in. Good to know, I guess, that my kid's experience is "normal."

The former debaters might be interested in reading this Harpers piece by Tess McNulty about toxic gender dynamics in h.s. debate: https://harpers.org/archive/2022/09/both-sides-now-domination-and-abuse-on-the-high-school-debate-circuit/

As for the poster who asked "What's the point?" If you looked at any activity through the lens of "in demand skills," I think you'd find most of them lacking. What's the point of striving to run a mile in less than five minutes or putting your body (and brain) on the line for high school football? I think all activities can have a point if the student finds fulfilment in them. As PPs have noted, policy debate can work to sharpen critical thinking and writing, collaboration, public speaking and confidence.

What the point? Unless your kid wants to be a trial attorney I don’t see the point. The most in demand skill now is influence with high EQ not argumentativeness.

High school debate kids have a particular type of personality. Intense would be saying it kindly

+1. That’s how it is. I debated competitively in high school and loved it, but it does wear you down and it’s an activity that often has negative consequences on grades and other activities. To do it well is an extremely significant time commitment. And for planning purposes, college debate is *way* worse. I “retired” at the end of high school, but went to a college with a nationally competitive policy debate team, and those guys were flat-out hard core.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s normal. Debate can be very educational, but it can also be really toxic. Depends on the culture of the team. I did it 30 years ago on a nationally ranked high school team, and it was like that even then (“spreading,” “kritiks”) but now it’s worse, from what I hear. I have mixed feelings about encouraging my debate-minded kid to do it. You can learn a lot about research, analyzing arguments, and public policy, but it can also be crazy stressful, just like any intense, competitive activity.

Same here - I was a very competitive debater in the 80s ( both my team and in personal personal performance ) but it’s a much more intense activity now. My dd debated throughout MS and HS but we live in an area where debate is still a little lower key, I describe it as “kinda like the 80s” in a positive way. Realistically, that means the kids have a lot of fun and learn a ton, but aren’t as competitive out on national circuit tournaments. I judged at the Harvard tournament a few years ago and chatted with parents. Their kids’ experience on the high-performance teams just sound a lot less fun to me than it used to be. It’s really an all consuming thing for kids at that level with all the stress that goes with it, super demanding coaches etc. I’m glad my kid had an experience that was really positive, even if it meant she was never going to be winning national tournaments.

Yep, it is intense. My son was a high level competitive debater in HS, and almost every other week went like this: flying/riding out for a tournament Thursday night, competing Friday to Sunday, coming home late Sunday night, all while responsible for the whole school load, all the assignments plus the college apps stuff in 12th grade.

I’m the PP from above. Fwiw I enjoyed the intensity at the time, and I made some very close friends through debate. The workload prepared me for time management in college. I spent at least 20 hours a week on debate in HS on top of a full load of AP classes, and college was a breeze in comparison. But I don’t recommend it for kids who don’t thrive on pressure.

Yes, that’s normal. Debate can be very educational, but it can also be really toxic. Depends on the culture of the team. I did it 30 years ago on a nationally ranked high school team, and it was like that even then (“spreading,” “kritiks”) but now it’s worse, from what I hear. I have mixed feelings about encouraging my debate-minded kid to do it. You can learn a lot about research, analyzing arguments, and public policy, but it can also be crazy stressful, just like any intense, competitive activity.

HS debate is intense. I know kids who have had to quit sports because of the huge time commitment speech and debate is. What you are describing is correct. My daughter loves debating but can't commit to the team.

My kid is on the policy debate team. Kid likes the intellectual rigor and seems to be decent at it, and yet also seems to be made miserable by the stress of tournaments. I was never involved in debate, so it's all new to me, but it seems really intense (or maybe that's just my kid?) and the wacky arguments on both side and the practice of "spreading" (basically speed talking the entire time) make the debates themselves seem incoherent. Can anyone familiar with policy debate tell me if what I'm describing sounds normal?