Anonymous
09/20/2023 12:18
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
+1 I think W&M should stay committed to its high academic standards--it's what will ultimately stand the test of time. Being tuition-free for Pell grant students who qualify makes so much sense--actively recruiting strong low-income students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students is wrong IMO--and though it made VT rise in the rankings, I don't think it's a great move overall for the institution or the state. I'm a progressive, but I think this generates backlash and does a disservice to students. The point should be about removing barriers to attendance for all not adjusting admissions criteria to strongly favor a group--especially in a public institution. I don't have any students applying to college right now so it's not about what will help my kid get in somewhere.
Agree with slight adjustment: "...actively recruiting strong low-income & first gen students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students & Pell Grant is wrong IMO..."
Our strong first gen DD is very happy at W&M and so are several of her classmates, some of them Pell Grant qualified. One was offered a W&M scholarship and it was the deciding factor for that girl between UVA and W&M. All came from adv academics magnet school.
The quality of students is par with UVA (only a smidgen lower on the low end). I understand the campus is not for everyone, and it will always be more self-selecting than the other big state publics.
However, changes are coming. Dorms and dining facility will be much improved in roughly 2 years, a new Science Building with the addition of Design/Engineering (are they going to start offering some engineering I wonder).
And the new fine arts building just opened. (My musician DD is over the moon).
Anonymous
09/20/2023 12:05
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
+1 I think W&M should stay committed to its high academic standards--it's what will ultimately stand the test of time. Being tuition-free for Pell grant students who qualify makes so much sense--actively recruiting strong low-income students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students is wrong IMO--and though it made VT rise in the rankings, I don't think it's a great move overall for the institution or the state. I'm a progressive, but I think this generates backlash and does a disservice to students. The point should be about removing barriers to attendance for all not adjusting admissions criteria to strongly favor a group--especially in a public institution. I don't have any students applying to college right now so it's not about what will help my kid get in somewhere.
Agree with slight adjustment: "...actively recruiting strong low-income & first gen students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students & Pell Grant is wrong IMO..."
Our strong first gen DD is very happy at W&M and so are several of her classmates, some of them Pell Grant qualified. One was offered a W&M scholarship and it was the deciding factor for that girl between UVA and W&M. All came from adv academics magnet school.
The quality of students is par with UVA (only a smidgen lower on the low end). I understand the campus is not for everyone, and it will always be more self-selecting than the other big state publics.
However, changes are coming. Dorms and dining facility will be much improved in roughly 2 years, a new Science Building with the addition of Design/Engineering (are they going to start offering some engineering I wonder).
Anonymous
09/20/2023 11:47
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:But even if it is tuition free for Pell grant - what about room and board? Does W&M cover that too? If not, Pell grant kids with other options (100% meet needs / more generous financial aid) will go elsewhere
Does any state school in Virginia? Or any state school period? That’s not realist for a state school. You should be able to swing WM room and board (about 10k) and personal expenses with a Pell grant ($7400), the federal loan max and a summer job, plus 8-10 hours a week work study. A student graduating with $22k in debt is reasonable IMO.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 11:36
Subject: Re:Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.
But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.
Not necessarily
Anonymous
09/20/2023 11:27
Subject: Re:Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.
But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 11:27
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
But even if it is tuition free for Pell grant - what about room and board? Does W&M cover that too? If not, Pell grant kids with other options (100% meet needs / more generous financial aid) will go elsewhere
Anonymous
09/20/2023 11:22
Subject: Re:Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 10:16
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
+1 I think W&M should stay committed to its high academic standards--it's what will ultimately stand the test of time. Being tuition-free for Pell grant students who qualify makes so much sense--actively recruiting strong low-income students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students is wrong IMO--and though it made VT rise in the rankings, I don't think it's a great move overall for the institution or the state. I'm a progressive, but I think this generates backlash and does a disservice to students. The point should be about removing barriers to attendance for all not adjusting admissions criteria to strongly favor a group--especially in a public institution. I don't have any students applying to college right now so it's not about what will help my kid get in somewhere.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 08:56
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
W&M should not set DEI targets, they should remain the school they are and have always been.
When rankings disregard commitment to undergraduate teaching by devaluing small class sizes being taught by highly qualified professors (not TAs) then those rankings become utterly meaningless.
100%
Anonymous
09/20/2023 08:55
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
W&M should not set DEI targets, they should remain the school they are and have always been.
When rankings disregard commitment to undergraduate teaching by devaluing small class sizes being taught by highly qualified professors (not TAs) then those rankings become utterly meaningless.
Best liberal arts college in VA. Hands down.
Every course is taught by a Professor, not TAs. It's known to be very rigorous, and that the students are some of the best prepared after graduation (as told by graduate programs, law schools and employers).
Anonymous
09/20/2023 08:53
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
I don't care for rankings (any rankings) and I hope it doesn't drive schools to make any significant changes due to that. My perception of WM won't change because of that. I am not even VA but know enough about WM as a fine institution.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 08:48
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
W&M should not set DEI targets, they should remain the school they are and have always been.
When rankings disregard commitment to undergraduate teaching by devaluing small class sizes being taught by highly qualified professors (not TAs) then those rankings become utterly meaningless.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 07:58
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.
The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 04:23
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.
Anonymous
09/20/2023 02:50
Subject: Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM
William and Mary's historical quality and prestige comes from two main factors - It's the oldest university in the south, and the best small public college in one of the wealthiest states with a fast-growing population. Neither of these are changing anytime soon. There's absolutely nothing the school can really do to climb back up the rankings either - it can't suddenly become a large public STEM school in a state with a bunch of PELL grant recipients. All the hand-wringing is for naught.
Ignore rankings and focus on quality of education when selecting schools, please.
Ignore rankings and focus on quality of education when selecting schools, please.