Anonymous
09/16/2023 20:32
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I also find class to be a gross term but I'll bite.
- ability to get to work, get kids to school, have adequate supervision for children while parents are working
- ability to get food on the table for 3 meals a day, but not necessarily the ability to order takeout or eat out on every single whim
- vacation once a year (coach, name brand hotel chains) and visit family for holidays or host a few times a year
- can get back to school clothes and have a "nice" set of clothes for parties or church or special occasions, can buy gifts for people, have kid birthday parties, hire a babysitter once in a while, send photo holiday cards, and drive cars that don't attract attention for being too trashy or too flashy
- kid(s) will go to college but might have to choose based on cost or aid, kids and/or parents could have loans
This. What’s crazy is that I feel like this basically describes us with a 300k HHI. And I know we are on the higher end of earners in this area (even if “poor” by DCUM standards). But we have 3 kids and prioritized living close-in. Although to be fair I can’t necessarily say our mortgage is more than if we had moved farther out. It’s just that we picked a smaller/older house in a walkable area versus a larger house outside the beltway.
I agree with a PP about generational timing too. We were able to buy a starter condo in 2012 and rolled that into a SFH in 2019 (refi’d to < 3% interest). There is NO way we could afford our neighborhood now on our income if just starting out. Hell even the houses farther out now cost more than our mortgage because of high rates.
Oh, DCUM. Never change.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 19:54
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Anonymous wrote:I also find class to be a gross term but I'll bite.
- ability to get to work, get kids to school, have adequate supervision for children while parents are working
- ability to get food on the table for 3 meals a day, but not necessarily the ability to order takeout or eat out on every single whim
- vacation once a year (coach, name brand hotel chains) and visit family for holidays or host a few times a year
- can get back to school clothes and have a "nice" set of clothes for parties or church or special occasions, can buy gifts for people, have kid birthday parties, hire a babysitter once in a while, send photo holiday cards, and drive cars that don't attract attention for being too trashy or too flashy
- kid(s) will go to college but might have to choose based on cost or aid, kids and/or parents could have loans
This. What’s crazy is that I feel like this basically describes us with a 300k HHI. And I know we are on the higher end of earners in this area (even if “poor” by DCUM standards). But we have 3 kids and prioritized living close-in. Although to be fair I can’t necessarily say our mortgage is more than if we had moved farther out. It’s just that we picked a smaller/older house in a walkable area versus a larger house outside the beltway.
I agree with a PP about generational timing too. We were able to buy a starter condo in 2012 and rolled that into a SFH in 2019 (refi’d to < 3% interest). There is NO way we could afford our neighborhood now on our income if just starting out. Hell even the houses farther out now cost more than our mortgage because of high rates.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 19:52
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Anonymous wrote:I think I’m MC.. 1 adult 1 child net income $125, mortgaged condo, 12 yr old car. 1 credit card for point only and no student loans.
I splurge in the following areas:
Vacation (3 per year 2 are international and 1 local )
Summer camp
Home furnishings
I am frugal about
Groceries ( Lidl or Trader Joe’s)
Clothes ( poshmark or goodwill)
Eating out - entertainment ( movies on Tuesdays for $5 eating out as a treat during restaurant week)
Things I could do better about
- liquid savings ( I put all my money in Roth and 401k and could do better about a standard savings)
- ramping up health. I survive off coffee, junk food and getting out of the house more.
- charity, donating, volunteering
Your net income to household size is definitely not what I would call MC, nor are the yearly international trips or summer camp.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 19:48
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Anonymous wrote:If we go with approximately the middle of the middle class income distribution - say $120K for a family of 4 - I think the corresponding lifestyle is:
- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx
This sounds the most accurate and realistic.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 19:43
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
This is such an interesting question as it's the root of why people spend the way they do. I know people in DC who grew up LMC and are now UMC, each with HHI of around $225-350K. They spend a lot on things like take out, eating out, entertainment, and other convenience items. Some of them are stretching for private schools for the kids. They're not saving for retirement above minimum 401K contributions.
They have this idea that once you're UMC then you can afford all these things. They're not really tracking their expenses, and seem to spend a lot on things that aren't assets. I bite my tongue even though I want to say talk to a financial planner regarding retirement savings.
To answer OP's question, it looks different to each person. Look at what you can afford. DC has a lot of people with family money, so you can't look at the guy sitting next to you with the same job and assume that you can spend $X on something just because he does. He might have a trust fund that he never mentions.
They have this idea that once you're UMC then you can afford all these things. They're not really tracking their expenses, and seem to spend a lot on things that aren't assets. I bite my tongue even though I want to say talk to a financial planner regarding retirement savings.
To answer OP's question, it looks different to each person. Look at what you can afford. DC has a lot of people with family money, so you can't look at the guy sitting next to you with the same job and assume that you can spend $X on something just because he does. He might have a trust fund that he never mentions.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 14:55
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Home-ownership or renting for non-financial reasons (frequent moves due to job) of a comfortable but not oversized home (smaller home if living in the expensive neighborhoods), with vehicles, unless in the city.
Enough money for reasonable extras, such as consumable entertainment, travel, activities and hobbies for adults and children. More affordable than expensive equitation event-style things. Not countless jaunts to the Europe, Asia, etc, several times a year. More like one big trip a year, or several cheaper trips.
Enough money saved for state U or private uni with merit aid.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 14:50
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
We pinch pennies so we can afford housing and kid’s activities.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 14:48
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, you mention "lifestyle," so I'll stick to that. But "class" (a term I find kinda gross, but whatever) of course covers more than that -- most importantly values.
Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.
MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.
I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).
Totally bs drivel. OP meant true middle class people in the DMV, I would say households earning less that 250k HHI. I have a net worth of 8 million at 49 and will continue to work another 12 yrs, I am not UC but I am realistic enough to understand that I am not MC either, just because I work.
Ok .. so you know you aren't UC, and with a "net worth of 8 million at 49" (lol) you definitely aren't lc, and yet here you are going on about "I am not MC either, just because I work" ... so what on earth do you think you are?
This is what I meant about the MC being weirdly class conscious, lol. Being lumped in with people earn "less than 250k HHI" sets you off into a tizzy. Lol.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 14:36
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Anonymous wrote:Well, you mention "lifestyle," so I'll stick to that. But "class" (a term I find kinda gross, but whatever) of course covers more than that -- most importantly values.
Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.
MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.
I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).
Totally bs drivel. OP meant true middle class people in the DMV, I would say households earning less that 250k HHI. I have a net worth of 8 million at 49 and will continue to work another 12 yrs, I am not UC but I am realistic enough to understand that I am not MC either, just because I work.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 13:50
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
If we go with approximately the middle of the middle class income distribution - say $120K for a family of 4 - I think the corresponding lifestyle is:
- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx
- home ownership, but no major renovations
- 2 cars with loans, buys cars used
- public school
- No issues covering monthly groceries, utilities; good insurance through work
- 1 vacation in driving distance each summer, vacation with flights every 3 years or so
- School sports, school music programs but minimal to no extra private lessons or club programs
- Savings to support moderate emergencies (new appliance, car repair) but not $10K+ expenses. No investments outside 401K and 529
- Minimal college savings; not enough to do 4 years at state flagship for both kids without loans
- Can buy new clothes, shoes as needed but shopping sales / TJ Maxx
Anonymous
09/16/2023 13:31
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
I think I’m MC.. 1 adult 1 child net income $125, mortgaged condo, 12 yr old car. 1 credit card for point only and no student loans.
I splurge in the following areas:
Vacation (3 per year 2 are international and 1 local )
Summer camp
Home furnishings
I am frugal about
Groceries ( Lidl or Trader Joe’s)
Clothes ( poshmark or goodwill)
Eating out - entertainment ( movies on Tuesdays for $5 eating out as a treat during restaurant week)
Things I could do better about
- liquid savings ( I put all my money in Roth and 401k and could do better about a standard savings)
- ramping up health. I survive off coffee, junk food and getting out of the house more.
- charity, donating, volunteering
I splurge in the following areas:
Vacation (3 per year 2 are international and 1 local )
Summer camp
Home furnishings
I am frugal about
Groceries ( Lidl or Trader Joe’s)
Clothes ( poshmark or goodwill)
Eating out - entertainment ( movies on Tuesdays for $5 eating out as a treat during restaurant week)
Things I could do better about
- liquid savings ( I put all my money in Roth and 401k and could do better about a standard savings)
- ramping up health. I survive off coffee, junk food and getting out of the house more.
- charity, donating, volunteering
Anonymous
09/16/2023 13:08
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
I also find class to be a gross term but I'll bite.
- ability to get to work, get kids to school, have adequate supervision for children while parents are working
- ability to get food on the table for 3 meals a day, but not necessarily the ability to order takeout or eat out on every single whim
- vacation once a year (coach, name brand hotel chains) and visit family for holidays or host a few times a year
- can get back to school clothes and have a "nice" set of clothes for parties or church or special occasions, can buy gifts for people, have kid birthday parties, hire a babysitter once in a while, send photo holiday cards, and drive cars that don't attract attention for being too trashy or too flashy
- kid(s) will go to college but might have to choose based on cost or aid, kids and/or parents could have loans
- ability to get to work, get kids to school, have adequate supervision for children while parents are working
- ability to get food on the table for 3 meals a day, but not necessarily the ability to order takeout or eat out on every single whim
- vacation once a year (coach, name brand hotel chains) and visit family for holidays or host a few times a year
- can get back to school clothes and have a "nice" set of clothes for parties or church or special occasions, can buy gifts for people, have kid birthday parties, hire a babysitter once in a while, send photo holiday cards, and drive cars that don't attract attention for being too trashy or too flashy
- kid(s) will go to college but might have to choose based on cost or aid, kids and/or parents could have loans
Anonymous
09/16/2023 13:03
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
I think it's very broad and also generational. I have colleagues who are GenX and Boomers, in the same level position as I am (low 100s), who live in desirable close-in neighborhoods I could never possibly afford. One even has a second home out west. I'd say we are all middle class, but getting on the real estate ladder 20 years ago made aaaaaall the difference.
I think if you fall under measures of poverty qualifying for assistance, or ALICE, you're not MC. I am not sure what the upper bound is, but "you're MC if you have to work for a living" is a tell for rich people who focus on what they lack rather than how much better off they are than the average American, so maybe that.
I think if you fall under measures of poverty qualifying for assistance, or ALICE, you're not MC. I am not sure what the upper bound is, but "you're MC if you have to work for a living" is a tell for rich people who focus on what they lack rather than how much better off they are than the average American, so maybe that.
Anonymous
09/16/2023 12:56
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
Well, you mention "lifestyle," so I'll stick to that. But "class" (a term I find kinda gross, but whatever) of course covers more than that -- most importantly values.
Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.
MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.
I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).
Imho MC covers almost everyone in the DMV. If you are UC your home is most likely gated and you don't need any wage income. If you are LC, your lifestyle probably includes needing assistance -- for example, I have friends who work really hard but still need Medicaid.
MC is everyone else. They live, like I said above, pretty much everywhere around here. They drive all kinds of cars, some, like DH, hate spending on cars (DH has a 14 year old Chevy Blazer), but many are weirdly class conscious and buy expensive, new cars every few years to telegraph -- I don't know, something. Think: All of those Porsche Cayennes. As far as kids' activities go, it's the MC that is obsessed with Ivies, SLACs, etc -- so most (well, at least parents who actually parent their kids) focus on kids' activities that will help them get ahead on college apps, socially, etc. This is super apparent with all of the posts here on DCUM about this.
I mean ... MC is incredibly broad (shrinking as it may be).
Anonymous
09/16/2023 12:44
Subject: S/o What do you think a middle class life style looks like?
I’m curious to hear what people think a middle class lifestyle in the DMV area looks like. Where do you think MC families live, what cars do they drive, what do kids do for activities…