Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 07:48     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:They started doing this in spring of last year. I think it's the same across the county. The 6+ test is better for kids in a county where most kids are above national averagem


It was done only in the spring and only for kids enrolled in 5/6. For fall and winter, the ES MAP was used.

OP, I think this will put kids in 5/6 taking the MS test at a disadvantage for the math/sci/computer sci magnet. My kids score (which was admittedly very high on the ES test) dropped more than 20 points. I would reach out to central office about this.


What was the percentile change? Dropping from 99+ to 95 won't change lottery eligibility.

There isn't a huge cohort of kids who are bad at math it has parents gunning for the magnet. The striver parents already have their kids in CM 5/6. The others don't want their kids to get on a bus so they skip Math 6 and Math 7.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 07:02     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
I’m guessing there will be a separate lottery for the CM students and the regular, each being in the top 15 percentile in each group? Otherwise it’s apples and oranges and wouldn’t make sense. This is pure speculation—I have no idea how this will affect the lottery.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 00:33     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
For local norming/tranches ("tiers"), see the fifth post down on this thread page:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1152067.page

As far as apples to oranges, some of MCPS cares, but those who actually would have to sign off on changes/exceptions seem to be willing to allow for individual/small group injustices rather than risk deeper examination of the selection paradigm.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 23:47     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:They started doing this in spring of last year. I think it's the same across the county. The 6+ test is better for kids in a county where most kids are above national averagem


It was done only in the spring and only for kids enrolled in 5/6. For fall and winter, the ES MAP was used.

OP, I think this will put kids in 5/6 taking the MS test at a disadvantage for the math/sci/computer sci magnet. My kids score (which was admittedly very high on the ES test) dropped more than 20 points. I would reach out to central office about this.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 21:40     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?


Last I knew, they based selection on local norms, so they'd be competing against kids who took the same test.


That's not how the local norms work. Schools are divided into "tiers" and the test scores are normed by tier. I believe the FOIA request from the MCCPTA turned up a document that showed 5 tiers.

To answer OP's question, I was a little surprised that the kids were taking the 6+ test this year, but given that MAP is an exposure-based test, those kids had a big advantage out of the starting block. There is substantial overlap between the two tests, however. For your average high achieving student not doing outside instruction, it won't make a difference in score. For the kids doing extensive math outside school, it will allow them to have a higher "ceiling."


How are these tiers determined?


FARMS rates. You can track down the categories, but they are basically High FARMS, Medium High FARMS, Medium FARMS, Low Moderate FARMS, and Low FARMS
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 21:24     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?


Last I knew, they based selection on local norms, so they'd be competing against kids who took the same test.


That's not how the local norms work. Schools are divided into "tiers" and the test scores are normed by tier. I believe the FOIA request from the MCCPTA turned up a document that showed 5 tiers.

To answer OP's question, I was a little surprised that the kids were taking the 6+ test this year, but given that MAP is an exposure-based test, those kids had a big advantage out of the starting block. There is substantial overlap between the two tests, however. For your average high achieving student not doing outside instruction, it won't make a difference in score. For the kids doing extensive math outside school, it will allow them to have a higher "ceiling."


How are these tiers determined?
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 21:08     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Is the score drop theory even true?

My kids have had random score drops and spikes at various ages.

The NWEA charts don't show any interruption in the trends at the 5/6 boundary.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 20:34     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?


Last I knew, they based selection on local norms, so they'd be competing against kids who took the same test.


That's not how the local norms work. Schools are divided into "tiers" and the test scores are normed by tier. I believe the FOIA request from the MCCPTA turned up a document that showed 5 tiers.

To answer OP's question, I was a little surprised that the kids were taking the 6+ test this year, but given that MAP is an exposure-based test, those kids had a big advantage out of the starting block. There is substantial overlap between the two tests, however. For your average high achieving student not doing outside instruction, it won't make a difference in score. For the kids doing extensive math outside school, it will allow them to have a higher "ceiling."


Yes, that is how local norms work, and for at least high-scoring kids the scores drop 10-20 points when they go to the higher test so lucky they use local norms.


....but the kids aren't compared only to other kids taking 5/6. The "tier" includes kids who are in Math 5 as well as 5/6, and a broad band of schools.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 20:23     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Kids who do well in magnet are so far above the lottery cutoff that it doesn't matter if there's some jitter due to test version. If your kid is in the bottom of the lottery then you aren't doing your kid any favors by sending them to magnet.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 20:18     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
They started doing this in spring of last year. I think it's the same across the county. The 6+ test is better for kids in a county where most kids are above national averagem
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 20:10     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Honestly, you’d be surprised how little different parts of Central are aware of some of these things. My best and honest guess is they will (unfairly) compare them like apples to apples because they will not realize that the score really does drop for many when shifting to the 6th grade version. They did not do this last fall afaik, so there is no precedent of how they handled it.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 19:15     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?


Last I knew, they based selection on local norms, so they'd be competing against kids who took the same test.


That's not how the local norms work. Schools are divided into "tiers" and the test scores are normed by tier. I believe the FOIA request from the MCCPTA turned up a document that showed 5 tiers.

To answer OP's question, I was a little surprised that the kids were taking the 6+ test this year, but given that MAP is an exposure-based test, those kids had a big advantage out of the starting block. There is substantial overlap between the two tests, however. For your average high achieving student not doing outside instruction, it won't make a difference in score. For the kids doing extensive math outside school, it will allow them to have a higher "ceiling."


Yes, that is how local norms work, and for at least high-scoring kids the scores drop 10-20 points when they go to the higher test so lucky they use local norms.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 18:53     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?


Last I knew, they based selection on local norms, so they'd be competing against kids who took the same test.


That's not how the local norms work. Schools are divided into "tiers" and the test scores are normed by tier. I believe the FOIA request from the MCCPTA turned up a document that showed 5 tiers.

To answer OP's question, I was a little surprised that the kids were taking the 6+ test this year, but given that MAP is an exposure-based test, those kids had a big advantage out of the starting block. There is substantial overlap between the two tests, however. For your average high achieving student not doing outside instruction, it won't make a difference in score. For the kids doing extensive math outside school, it will allow them to have a higher "ceiling."
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 17:23     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?


Last I knew, they based selection on local norms, so they'd be competing against kids who took the same test.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 17:16     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
My child is in fifth grade and taking compacted math. He took the grade 6 map test this week. Does anyone know how this will affect placement into middle school magnets? How will they compare those who took the 6th grade test against those who took the 5th grade test?