Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 12:00     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.


That's great, but it's also anecdata. The increased risk for negative outcomes for kids at high-achieving schools is well-established at this point. Yes, parents can do things to reduce that risk, but not if they don't know about it.



What parents these days don't know about it? Serious question.


Lol - most of DCUM, apparently. I have seen reference to this research maybe... twice? in all of the threads here (and I'm on here too much). Look at the panicked threads about college acceptance and private schools and the hand-wringing over sports and the various public schools. I want to know what data you have to suggest that most parents DO know about it.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 11:27     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We actively fight against the teenage rat-race and the stress and anxiety our kids face, but they listen to us about that the same way they listen about eating all 4 food groups, getting to sleep on time, and clothing choices. Which is to say, not as much as we would prefer. But it's an almost daily conversation and we've made deliberate choices about where to live and what activities to encourage/allow in order to put their mental health first.


+1
The environment around us sends a different message than we do as parents. One of our family core values is health and the rat race is not healthy. I tell them there is space for everyone to be successful. If they zig, you zag. We are guiding our naturally anxious straight A Big 3 kid toward a nice Midwest university with high acceptance rates. It served me well, so I'm a great example of how one doesn't need a top university to be successful. She can choose a competitive grad school if she wants. We're not doing the Ivy or bust game, not even in that race.


Are you living your vlaues as a non-UMC MC family, or are you setting your child up to not have the same level of wealth that she was accustomed to as a child?

Access to grad school and a high paying career is a lot harder now than it was for your generation.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 11:15     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:We actively fight against the teenage rat-race and the stress and anxiety our kids face, but they listen to us about that the same way they listen about eating all 4 food groups, getting to sleep on time, and clothing choices. Which is to say, not as much as we would prefer. But it's an almost daily conversation and we've made deliberate choices about where to live and what activities to encourage/allow in order to put their mental health first.


+1
The environment around us sends a different message than we do as parents. One of our family core values is health and the rat race is not healthy. I tell them there is space for everyone to be successful. If they zig, you zag. We are guiding our naturally anxious straight A Big 3 kid toward a nice Midwest university with high acceptance rates. It served me well, so I'm a great example of how one doesn't need a top university to be successful. She can choose a competitive grad school if she wants. We're not doing the Ivy or bust game, not even in that race.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 10:19     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not the school that does this. It’s wealthy snowplow parents who obsess on elite colleges.


I think it's both, though I think the problem with the school is usually not the educators there, but the peers. It's bad to snowplow for your kid and obsess over their grades and scores and college prospects. But even if you aren't like that, if you send your kid to school with a lot of kids who have parents like that, it will rub off on them. They will absorb that anxiety.

Schools like TJ and other "pressure cookers" create this ambient anxiety about success and prestige, and you can't escape it.

The vast majority of kids, even high achieving kids, would be better off in more diverse school environments where there is room not only of rate hyper-ambitious Ivy-bound straight-A student, but a variety of other kids at different levels of ability and ambition, with different interests and strengths.

It is deeply unhealthy to be self-selected into a group where everyone wants the same few, scarce rewards. It will drive you crazy. And these are children, so it's even worse.


The high achieving kids at those diverse schools want the same scarce rewards. At least the Langley kids have full pay parents; try being a high achiever at a middle class school knowing that you and your friends are all competing for the same limited seats at your state flagship.


You get that the kids don't actually get to decide if their parents are full pay or not, right? A kid with full pay parents is always going to have more options than one without, and a high achiever without wealthy parents will always have to compete against other similarly-situationed kids for limited resources. It doesn't matter where they go to school, that's just life.

The high achieving kids at the more diverse schools might develop some perspective that helps them to see that not getting into a top college is not the end of the world, and they also might develop some resilience from being in a place that doesn't solely cater to their needs, but seeks to educated a much broader population with a greater variety of needs.

But yeah, having rich parents is an advantage. News at 11.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 10:09     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.


That's great, but it's also anecdata. The increased risk for negative outcomes for kids at high-achieving schools is well-established at this point. Yes, parents can do things to reduce that risk, but not if they don't know about it.


+1 and you really don't know what is going on with other kids. They can hide a lot of anxiety and despair.

I thought we were doing the same things-- following DD's lead, not pushing her to take on too much, not talking about college or doing things to improve her college resume, encouraging balance, etc. And then she had a huge meltdown in 10th grade because she was getting all this college pressure from the peer environment. Our not talking explicitly about college and how there are lots of schools that can be a great fit left a big void for the school culture to set up camp in her brain. Showing her some "safety" schools that could be a great fit and talking about how the things she enjoyed doing would be valued in a college application helped lower the stress. You have to actively work to counter the culture in these high-achieving schools because it is there even if you don't think it is.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 10:04     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.


That's great, but it's also anecdata. The increased risk for negative outcomes for kids at high-achieving schools is well-established at this point. Yes, parents can do things to reduce that risk, but not if they don't know about it.



What parents these days don't know about it? Serious question.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 09:32     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.


That's great, but it's also anecdata. The increased risk for negative outcomes for kids at high-achieving schools is well-established at this point. Yes, parents can do things to reduce that risk, but not if they don't know about it.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 09:32     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s not the school that does this. It’s wealthy snowplow parents who obsess on elite colleges.


I think it's both, though I think the problem with the school is usually not the educators there, but the peers. It's bad to snowplow for your kid and obsess over their grades and scores and college prospects. But even if you aren't like that, if you send your kid to school with a lot of kids who have parents like that, it will rub off on them. They will absorb that anxiety.

Schools like TJ and other "pressure cookers" create this ambient anxiety about success and prestige, and you can't escape it.

The vast majority of kids, even high achieving kids, would be better off in more diverse school environments where there is room not only of rate hyper-ambitious Ivy-bound straight-A student, but a variety of other kids at different levels of ability and ambition, with different interests and strengths.

It is deeply unhealthy to be self-selected into a group where everyone wants the same few, scarce rewards. It will drive you crazy. And these are children, so it's even worse.


The high achieving kids at those diverse schools want the same scarce rewards. At least the Langley kids have full pay parents; try being a high achiever at a middle class school knowing that you and your friends are all competing for the same limited seats at your state flagship.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 09:26     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
Anonymous wrote:It’s not the school that does this. It’s wealthy snowplow parents who obsess on elite colleges.


I think it's both, though I think the problem with the school is usually not the educators there, but the peers. It's bad to snowplow for your kid and obsess over their grades and scores and college prospects. But even if you aren't like that, if you send your kid to school with a lot of kids who have parents like that, it will rub off on them. They will absorb that anxiety.

Schools like TJ and other "pressure cookers" create this ambient anxiety about success and prestige, and you can't escape it.

The vast majority of kids, even high achieving kids, would be better off in more diverse school environments where there is room not only of rate hyper-ambitious Ivy-bound straight-A student, but a variety of other kids at different levels of ability and ambition, with different interests and strengths.

It is deeply unhealthy to be self-selected into a group where everyone wants the same few, scarce rewards. It will drive you crazy. And these are children, so it's even worse.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 09:16     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
We actively fight against the teenage rat-race and the stress and anxiety our kids face, but they listen to us about that the same way they listen about eating all 4 food groups, getting to sleep on time, and clothing choices. Which is to say, not as much as we would prefer. But it's an almost daily conversation and we've made deliberate choices about where to live and what activities to encourage/allow in order to put their mental health first.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 09:12     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
It’s not the school that does this. It’s wealthy snowplow parents who obsess on elite colleges.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 09:10     Subject: Re:Kids in high achieving schools
Not new, when my now 26 year old was a freshman at McLean, the annual student survey indicated that Langley and McLean had a very high suicide ideation rate. They have done many programs to reduce that since.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 08:51     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
My kid is at a magnet school in Moco and I'm not seeing this at all, at least not as a widespread phenomenon. The college admissions rat race can be awful, but a lot of it depends on how the parents support their kids and manage expectations. Is my kid grinding through and sleep deprived at times? Yes, but not all the time thankfully. Most importantly, DC feels satisfied and fulfilled by engaging with a curriculum that is appropriately challenging. DC sets their pace, not me, and we don't force any ECs they don't enjoy. So, even with very high stats and rigor, they probably won't get into HYPMS, but their college readiness will be outstanding and I feel confident they will do very well wherever they land. Most of the parents I know have the same attitude. There are a few extreme "Harvard, MIT or bust" parents who make their kids' lives miserable but that is the exception not the rule ime. Of course, mental health issues have intensified since the pandemic. I could see the combo of high-pressure schools, high-pressure parents, and that creating a toxic stew but, again, I haven't seen much of that in my kid's circles.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 08:41     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
There are plenty of non-pressure cooker schools in the DMV. DH and I grew up in top DC suburb public, and our smart, but highly anxious child would completely fall apart in those environments. Part of the reason why we’re staying in DC proper. Would also choose Takoma Park, Silver Spring, South Arlington, Falls Church Co., etc. Not the best schools in the county, but still strong and more balanced for kids that need more balance.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2023 07:35     Subject: Kids in high achieving schools
I was listening to a podcast by a child psychologist and she said that it was kids in high achieving schools (like TJ and McLean and others around here) were now almost equally as likely to have suicidal ideations and severe mental health problems as kids who experienced extreme trauma. How incredibly sad! We have done that to our kids by pushing this super over competitive lifestyle on them. There is no room for failure, for being less than perfect from a very young age.

I have a friend who is a child psychologist and did therapy sessions with kids in Fairfax county. She said it was some of the saddest cases she has had to deal with because you have all these kids with so much privilege but yet have sooo many problems. It makes me want to leave the NoVA area and raise my kids elsewhere.