Anonymous
09/08/2023 22:00
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:OP, if I went around explaining to people everything they do that annoys me, I would have zero friends.
It is low EQ to share that kind of thing with the person because it is hurtful to the person, especially if it is something they cannot change like a tic. My own son has tics and I do not point them out to him, because they stem from anxiety and he can’t stop them. It would just make him more anxious and make the tic worse. I work behind the scenes to address the root cause of the anxiety instead.
I would gently suggest that a therapist is the BEST place to get this kind of social skills training. Not your friends. I know it is expensive, but it is worth it. A friend will not do this for you, because they don’t want to hurt you.
I have on occasion told friends about things they can fix. The absolutely worst was having to tell a good friend of mine at college he had BO. To this day I still die inside a little thinking about that conversation, but he did fix it. He was absolutely mortified, though. We never mentioned it again and pretended like it didn’t happen.
This person is correct. It’s rude to tell people that they are being boring. You can try to steer the conversation, but most people are not going to tell you the things you are talking about unless they are super close, like family or very, very good friends. It’s unfortunate you didn’t give credit to what your family was telling you. Stop dwelling on the past; now you know better you can do better. You are still very young and it’s great you have help and the desire to change. Good luck.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 21:56
Subject: Re:I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.
I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.
She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.
She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.
It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.
Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?
PP, this sounds like the person had borderline personality disorder- the blame shifting, lying, manipulating, gaslighting- that's not ADHD (and she likely would have lied about an actual diagnosis anyway).
OP, what you ask for is how I was with my sister. The thing I love the most about people with autism is the way they accept feedback and don't take it personally- at least in my experience. It's very pleasant/refreshing and my interactions with people like this are stress-free. And it's nice because you can drop some of the social nicety stuff with people like that who don't care/don't get offended. She never argued, just nodded and incorporated the feedback as much as she was able. She always had/has to work on *noticing* whatever it was in herself or others and 'remembering to care to get it right' but she vastly improved over time. I wasn't always nice about it because it took a lot of work at times explaining/proving/showing examples of 'general human interaction' rules... she sometimes couldn't wrap her head around why people tell white lies, or why people don't like hearing about comic books for an hour and a half- but she could recognize and insert formulas "if I am asking too may questions I will lay off", "If the person isn't asking me questions about Star Trek, I will stop talking about it", "I should probably agree with everyone else in this room that our friend doesn't look fat in those pants"... we still joke that she liked Star Trek so much because she WAS Spock. She found human behaviour interesting. A lot of the time I'd take her out to malls/bars with me even though she was a few years older- just so we could people watch and I could point out people who interacted/moved like her and people who appeared more confident (we were always worried that because she was in her inner world- that she could be targeted for mugging, etc).
Anyway, we are in our 40s now and I did/do see her improve on being more reflective. Sometimes she is still child like and has to be walked through the logic of something but when she gets it, she gets it. Whether she will recognize the situation when she sees it again is another thing. Mostly I just wanted her to be able to have a better BS detector for jerks or liars as she was very naive.
I just wanted to say I found it interesting that your family/sisters DID tell you but you didn't listen- so I guess watch what you wish for. Maybe return to the topic with them and let them know you welcome more feedback now and that you know they tried to help you. Often I just felt mean- and she probably felt I was too- but I just wanted her to be safely independent. She is one of my most favourite people these days because I've dealt with DC society so long that she is incredibly refreshing/relaxing to be around. Anyway, I hope somebody feels this way about you.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 21:55
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't know if I'm socially awkward because of the weird parents I grew up with or because of being undiagnosed with autism, but I have been so grateful to the people who've moved through my life and told me things I needed to know in a very direct, straight-forward way. "Don't start a conversation with someone with the phrase you know what your problem is." "Stop saying 'you should ...' to people." "When you reach out to invite someone to something instead of saying "what are you doing this weekend?" instead say "I was thinking we could go to X Sunday morning - want to come?" "Don't open the window or change the thermostat in someone else's home, just ask if they can make it cooler."
What? What’s wrong with asking people what they’re doing this weekend? It’s a very common prelude to an invite.
NP. I feel like I'm being put on the spot. I don't know if you're asking me for a favor or inviting me somewhere I'd like to go. It feels like you're assuming that if I'm not doing anything that I'm de facto available for your thing. I'm embarrassed when my answer most of the time is I'm doing nothing / relaxing / errands. And even when I'm doing nothing that still doesn’t necessarily mean I want to go to your thing even if it's a fun thing (due to depression and anxiety). I like the PP's approach of just extending the invite so I can accept or decline.
Same thing at work. I hate when colleagues ping me "are you busy?" "what are you working on right now?" I prefer "do you have the bandwidth to help me with X?"
Anonymous
09/08/2023 21:43
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if I'm socially awkward because of the weird parents I grew up with or because of being undiagnosed with autism, but I have been so grateful to the people who've moved through my life and told me things I needed to know in a very direct, straight-forward way. "Don't start a conversation with someone with the phrase you know what your problem is." "Stop saying 'you should ...' to people." "When you reach out to invite someone to something instead of saying "what are you doing this weekend?" instead say "I was thinking we could go to X Sunday morning - want to come?" "Don't open the window or change the thermostat in someone else's home, just ask if they can make it cooler."
What? What’s wrong with asking people what they’re doing this weekend? It’s a very common prelude to an invite.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 14:03
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
OP, if I went around explaining to people everything they do that annoys me, I would have zero friends.
It is low EQ to share that kind of thing with the person because it is hurtful to the person, especially if it is something they cannot change like a tic. My own son has tics and I do not point them out to him, because they stem from anxiety and he can’t stop them. It would just make him more anxious and make the tic worse. I work behind the scenes to address the root cause of the anxiety instead.
I would gently suggest that a therapist is the BEST place to get this kind of social skills training. Not your friends. I know it is expensive, but it is worth it. A friend will not do this for you, because they don’t want to hurt you.
I have on occasion told friends about things they can fix. The absolutely worst was having to tell a good friend of mine at college he had BO. To this day I still die inside a little thinking about that conversation, but he did fix it. He was absolutely mortified, though. We never mentioned it again and pretended like it didn’t happen.
It is low EQ to share that kind of thing with the person because it is hurtful to the person, especially if it is something they cannot change like a tic. My own son has tics and I do not point them out to him, because they stem from anxiety and he can’t stop them. It would just make him more anxious and make the tic worse. I work behind the scenes to address the root cause of the anxiety instead.
I would gently suggest that a therapist is the BEST place to get this kind of social skills training. Not your friends. I know it is expensive, but it is worth it. A friend will not do this for you, because they don’t want to hurt you.
I have on occasion told friends about things they can fix. The absolutely worst was having to tell a good friend of mine at college he had BO. To this day I still die inside a little thinking about that conversation, but he did fix it. He was absolutely mortified, though. We never mentioned it again and pretended like it didn’t happen.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:50
Subject: Re:I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.
I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.
She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.
She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.
It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.
Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?
I’m OP and that’s a fair assessment. Honestly speaking, my behaviors were likely more annoying and less hurtful. I do think my parents and sisters tried to warn me about my annoying and off-putting behaviors and I probably should have listened to them more, but would have taken it more seriously if I had heard it from others. With college roommates, it was definitely a boiled-over situation since they mentioned behaviors that I had no idea about. I also think that people were generally more likely to look for reasons to exclude people rather than be accommodating towards non-NT people. The thing with the autism spectrum is that we tend not to pick up on social cues and subtleties like “reading the room”, for example being invited to a party and not reading the room, then never being invited back to the party again with no explanation. The issue wasn’t that I told racist or insensitive jokes or something, it was more probably that I went on and on about some interest of mine and probably annoyed people. Again, I get that this isn’t their responsibility, but it would have helped if someone said “hey, you’ve been talking a lot about X, and we’re not really feeling it. How about we talk about something else?” Rather than just write me off as some weirdo and never invite me out again. I know I’m not entitled to it, but a second chance would have helped.
Therapy helps, but it’s expensive, and it doesn’t bring back all those years I could have built relationships by “reading the room” better.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:37
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:I’m mildly on the autism spectrum. High-functioning professionally but have difficulty building and maintaining relationships. I’m in therapy, I’ve improved social skills through the years, but looking back at my life, there’s one thing I wish people could have helped me with, which is being more honest and direct with me.
Over the years, in high school, college, and in most of my 20s, I’ve had acquaintances, so-called friends, and roommates who have just kept quiet about how annoying I was to them until it hit a boiling point and then they blew up at me and gave me a laundry list of all the things that annoyed them about me. I had no idea about all the little things that bothered them until it was too late. Had I known that certain habits of mine bothered people, I would have been more mindful and tried to change them and had been more self-aware and maybe had more successful relationships elsewhere in life. It’s taken me 33 years of living and three years of expensive therapy to figure out where I’ve gone wrong in social situations.
I realize it’s not others’ responsibility to coach me in relationships, and that not everyone is entitled to friends and partners. Life isn’t always fair like that. Just putting it out there that for some non-neurotypical people like myself, honesty is the best policy. Now I’m actually overcorrecting and over-analyzing how annoying I may be to people and I constantly worry what others are thinking and not telling me behind my back. It’s an exhausting way to live.
You’re assuming you would’ve heard, reflected, and changed your patterns at that time. Big assumptions!
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:35
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:I’m mildly on the autism spectrum. High-functioning professionally but have difficulty building and maintaining relationships. I’m in therapy, I’ve improved social skills through the years, but looking back at my life, there’s one thing I wish people could have helped me with, which is being more honest and direct with me.
Over the years, in high school, college, and in most of my 20s, I’ve had acquaintances, so-called friends, and roommates who have just kept quiet about how annoying I was to them until it hit a boiling point and then they blew up at me and gave me a laundry list of all the things that annoyed them about me. I had no idea about all the little things that bothered them until it was too late. Had I known that certain habits of mine bothered people, I would have been more mindful and tried to change them and had been more self-aware and maybe had more successful relationships elsewhere in life. It’s taken me 33 years of living and three years of expensive therapy to figure out where I’ve gone wrong in social situations.
I realize it’s not others’ responsibility to coach me in relationships, and that not everyone is entitled to friends and partners. Life isn’t always fair like that. Just putting it out there that for some non-neurotypical people like myself, honesty is the best policy. Now I’m actually overcorrecting and over-analyzing how annoying I may be to people and I constantly worry what others are thinking and not telling me behind my back. It’s an exhausting way to live.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:35
Subject: Re:I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.
I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.
She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.
She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.
It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.
Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?
I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.
She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.
She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.
It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.
Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:28
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
I don't know if I'm socially awkward because of the weird parents I grew up with or because of being undiagnosed with autism, but I have been so grateful to the people who've moved through my life and told me things I needed to know in a very direct, straight-forward way. "Don't start a conversation with someone with the phrase you know what your problem is." "Stop saying 'you should ...' to people." "When you reach out to invite someone to something instead of saying "what are you doing this weekend?" instead say "I was thinking we could go to X Sunday morning - want to come?" "Don't open the window or change the thermostat in someone else's home, just ask if they can make it cooler."
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:27
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Anonymous wrote:What are some of the things you used to do?
Mainly, I would talk about some certain interests way too much and not realize that others were not as interested. These topics weren’t as narrow as classic Asperger’s cases (not like Sheldon from Big Bang Theory) but more general things I thought were really cool but weren’t, apparently.
Other than that, some living habits among roommates, a few other social quirks or nervous ticks here and there.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:25
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
This is actually good advice for everyone. If someone is doing something that bothers you, tell them. Give them a chance to fix it. I told my husband when we got married "If you hate my meatloaf" don't eat it for 25 years and then frek out telling me you always hated it. Good luck growing. FYI, everyone even NT people struggle with all this stuff all the time. You are not as different or as alone as you may think.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:24
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
Right there with you.
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:23
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
What are some of the things you used to do?
Anonymous
09/08/2023 13:16
Subject: I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially
I’m mildly on the autism spectrum. High-functioning professionally but have difficulty building and maintaining relationships. I’m in therapy, I’ve improved social skills through the years, but looking back at my life, there’s one thing I wish people could have helped me with, which is being more honest and direct with me.
Over the years, in high school, college, and in most of my 20s, I’ve had acquaintances, so-called friends, and roommates who have just kept quiet about how annoying I was to them until it hit a boiling point and then they blew up at me and gave me a laundry list of all the things that annoyed them about me. I had no idea about all the little things that bothered them until it was too late. Had I known that certain habits of mine bothered people, I would have been more mindful and tried to change them and had been more self-aware and maybe had more successful relationships elsewhere in life. It’s taken me 33 years of living and three years of expensive therapy to figure out where I’ve gone wrong in social situations.
I realize it’s not others’ responsibility to coach me in relationships, and that not everyone is entitled to friends and partners. Life isn’t always fair like that. Just putting it out there that for some non-neurotypical people like myself, honesty is the best policy. Now I’m actually overcorrecting and over-analyzing how annoying I may be to people and I constantly worry what others are thinking and not telling me behind my back. It’s an exhausting way to live.
Over the years, in high school, college, and in most of my 20s, I’ve had acquaintances, so-called friends, and roommates who have just kept quiet about how annoying I was to them until it hit a boiling point and then they blew up at me and gave me a laundry list of all the things that annoyed them about me. I had no idea about all the little things that bothered them until it was too late. Had I known that certain habits of mine bothered people, I would have been more mindful and tried to change them and had been more self-aware and maybe had more successful relationships elsewhere in life. It’s taken me 33 years of living and three years of expensive therapy to figure out where I’ve gone wrong in social situations.
I realize it’s not others’ responsibility to coach me in relationships, and that not everyone is entitled to friends and partners. Life isn’t always fair like that. Just putting it out there that for some non-neurotypical people like myself, honesty is the best policy. Now I’m actually overcorrecting and over-analyzing how annoying I may be to people and I constantly worry what others are thinking and not telling me behind my back. It’s an exhausting way to live.