Tiptoeing around a man's ego and sensitivity to criticism and carefully making him feel like he's not a junior partner (or worse, mid-level associate) is just one more item on the to-do list sometimes. I think some men really are junior partners and feel this way, some men are junior partners but have wives who cater to them and protect their feelings and pick up their slack so that they never have to face the reality.

Anonymous wrote:If it bothered them that much, they would figure out a solution. Talk to their wife, get a more flexible job, be more available for parenting logistics, and step up and do a better job. Complaining without solutions is "junior partner" behavior and is exactly why they're being treated that way.

Harsh but fair.

If it bothered them that much, they would figure out a solution. Talk to their wife, get a more flexible job, be more available for parenting logistics, and step up and do a better job. Complaining without solutions is "junior partner" behavior and is exactly why they're being treated that way.

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

You should ask one of the people you hear saying it.

I'm a family where that is not exactly a problem. It maybe was at some point.

I feel it was easier for kids to know dad does X go to him for that.

Dad did - breakfast, laundry, clothes shopping, bug spray and sunblock, dishes with the kids, english/ss homework
I did - groceries, dinner, cooking, math/science homework.

When vacationing the kids immediately went to dad about breakfast and sunblock and the other mom's were amazed my "h did something". I was amazed their H's didn't.

Just dont' go to mom about everything, ask dad. Let him figure it out.

But lost of moms are control freaks then complain about how H's execute... then they do nothing.

Anonymous wrote:Someone needs to be the primary. There is a reason you don't see Co-CEOs. Not everything can be equally shared. Doesn't matter which parent does it, but things move more smoothly when one is the lead.

I agree, actually. I have substantially more time than my DH to say, research camp, coordinate with friends, and get signed up on time. And I've done it the past four years. Why should he do it this year? Just as a dumb experiment?

And if he steps in to handle something that I handle 95% of the time, why wouldn't I give him instructions about how that thing is typically handled or works? Wouldn't you want a co-worker at work to do that for you in a similar situation?

It's not like I manage how he shows love and affection to our kids, or how he spends a fun outing with them, or how he converses with them at dinner, or how he helps them with math homework... And we make big decisions about school, and discipline, and parenting philosophies together 100%.

But, yes, I am in charge of running our household.

In my home, it's because my job is to think of all the stuff that has to be done. My DH will help out, but he looks to me to know what he's supposed to help with. I get pretty excited when he takes initiative and figures something out on his own, but it's so, so rare.

It honestly started when I was pregnant. I was actually pregnant, so already I was more "involved" in that I actually had stuff I had to do at that point and DH didn't. But it also meant I was ready baby books, doing research, figuring out what we needed, thinking about how we'd approach certain initial parenting choices like feeding and sleep. I tried really hard to get DH involved in this, but he just... wouldn't. He'd read a page of a baby book and lose interest. He kept saying stuff like "I'd rather figure it out as we go." Which yeah, there is an element of that, but I didn't want to be figuring it ALL out as we went. I wanted to know, for instance, where the baby would be sleeping at first, and at least know enough bout stuff like breastfeeding, sleep, etc. to be able to make informed choices when the time came.

So I became the person who knew things and planned ahead, and DH because the parent who liked to "wing it". This inevitably leads to him asking me for stuff, needing me to tell him about stuff, etc. So much of parenting is not conducive to winging it. Schools HATE parents who wing it -- you have to be on top of things and on time. Summer camps start booking up in January, so if you wing it, congratulations -- you don't have childcare this summer now. Going on vacation with kids requires planning. Going out to dinner with kids requires planning.

We also have a kid with ADHD and other special needs, and let me tell you: DH's "wing it" approach is a disaster there. This kid has high rigidity and low distress tolerance, so you can't just assume she will roll with it when her preferred foods aren't available, nap doesn't happen when she expects it to, or a promised treat or event simply doesn't happen.

So, yes, DH is my "junior partner" in parenting because I did all the homework and he just showed up. I just know all the stuff. I also actually retain information from mistakes we make in the past, where he just lives in the present a lot. It does annoy him sometimes, and it annoys me too. But we both know the only way to change it is for him to step up and start doing more planning, paying more attention, and not relying on me to be the person who knows everything and prepares for everything, and I think his interest in that is low. So it continues. I don't love it but at least when I ask him to do stuff, he usually does it.

It's kind of like at a law firm, you have to bill enough hours before you'll even be considered.

It requires owning your tasks and your mistakes. If what they really want is to do a half-assed job and have their wife deal with the fallout (like when they fail to register for camps on time so the only camps left are not convenient), then they aren't really being a partner at all. Being a partner means doing a good job. It doesn't have to be the same as what your wife would do, but it must be well-thought-out and timely, with consideration for every person in the family not just himself.

My DH being really good about owning his tasks is the best thing that's ever happened for our marriage. I'm still the primary parent because he has a lot of work travel, so everything in our family must be manageable for me when he's away, but if he says he will do something I have 100% confidence it will be done well and with consideration of my needs and preferences. I would not have married him if this were a problem.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard anyone use this phrase. But, it isn’t hard to figure out what they mean.

+1 In my limited experience, the families where this happens are usually already lopsided in some way - dad earns much more or is the only one with a job or degree, and mom overcompensates for feeling undervalued by dubbing herself CEO of The Interior or somesuch nonsense, and insisting on everything being under her purview or done in only the way she demands.

If they're not willing to put in the time and effort, that's how they're going to feel. Men complain about this, but they don't actually want to bring the attention to detail and do all the boring tasks that it requires.

Someone needs to be the primary. There is a reason you don't see Co-CEOs. Not everything can be equally shared. Doesn't matter which parent does it, but things move more smoothly when one is the lead.

This is epidemic with my husbands friends, they talk about it a lot. It’s the other side of the “why do I have to do everything” coin that is constantly discussed by women on DCUM.

How many women here, truly, would be comfortable with their husband’s being in charge of an important task and never, ever reminding them, nagging them, or stepping in, and just letting them do it in their own way and on their own timeframe?

If he’s in charge of summer camps and you haven’t heard anything or seen any movement and it’s now March, can you hold your tongue? What about picking out the next car seat with no input from you? How about researching potty training, picking a method, and taking the lead on it?

It’s for sure a chicken and egg problem, I can already anticipate the responses of “he would mess it up, he has in the past, he wouldn’t do it.” But feeling like a subordinate is definitely the other side of the coin.

Many women (subconsciously) want their husbands to do half the work, but for them to be the managers, set the expectations, and determine, how, when, and to what degree the work is done. That’s not the path to equality - you have to share the management, too.

I’ve never heard anyone use this phrase. But, it isn’t hard to figure out what they mean.

I wonder if my dad could have felt that way. My mom dictated everything related to my brother and me. Even if my dad handled something fine, if it wasn't how my mom would have handled it, she would be mad. So to me it would be a dad who is perfectly capable of parenting and does a good job, but because his way may be different from his wife's, she gets mad and dictates how exactly things are supposed to be done.

One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?