Anonymous
08/13/2023 10:29
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
I'm French.
This has been happening for some time now, you just didn't notice.
35 years ago, I can remember Parisian waiters in cafes not speaking a word of English and treating non-French speaking tourists like second-class citizens. You couldn't go to a restaurant bathroom without being afraid of catching something. Gradually France has awoken to the realization that it makes a ton of money on tourism and that they'd better offer cleaner bathrooms, smile and speak English. The turning point was in the 90s when Japanese tourists started appearing en masse, spending staggering amounts.
This has been happening for some time now, you just didn't notice.
35 years ago, I can remember Parisian waiters in cafes not speaking a word of English and treating non-French speaking tourists like second-class citizens. You couldn't go to a restaurant bathroom without being afraid of catching something. Gradually France has awoken to the realization that it makes a ton of money on tourism and that they'd better offer cleaner bathrooms, smile and speak English. The turning point was in the 90s when Japanese tourists started appearing en masse, spending staggering amounts.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 10:15
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
English is the common global language. If there is only one foreign language taught at school, it’s usually English. Most people who travel speak at least some. We were in Portugal and Italy recently and there were a few older German tourists who didn’t speak English and the restaurant staff couldn’t believe it. I speak 4 languages, but it’s impossible for most of us to learn the language of every country we travel to.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 09:51
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Thank globalization
Anonymous
08/13/2023 09:36
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It never, never, hurts to allow folks to *invite* you to speak English, though. I think at the very least, a polite greeting in someone's language is a sign of respect.
IOW, it's not always the language. Sometimes it's the assumption.
We have stopped asking "is English okay" when we are traveling in parts of Europe where everyone speaks English because it feels a little silly, but we always say hello, good-bye, and thank you in the native language as a sign of respect, as PP says.
To OP's observation, I think it's long been true (or at least the last decade) that English is the default language in countries where the native language isn't widely spoken outside the country (e.g., Slovenia, Hungary, Denmark), and less so in France, Germany, Austria, etc. But I did notice when we were in Austria last summer that there seemed to be much more default English than the last time we were there before the pandemic.
I agree—it’s important to be attuned to the local culture to determine how much they want/care about your speaking the local language.
We were in Paris and Amsterdam recently, and my observation was that in most places in Paris conversations still started in French, and they seemed to appreciate the effort/greeting in French and acknowledgement that my French was not good; they would switch to English without concern. At a bakery I stood in line behind someone who started in English, and the person behind the counter was less friendly to her than she was to me after I started speaking in French. That said, I do think Paris has changed significantly on this front; when I was last there 20+ years ago, the shift to English was not nearly as universal or easy.
In Amsterdam, where English is so widely and fluently spoken, the effort to start in Dutch didn’t seem necessary or appropriate. The use of English was so broad that when we went into one store and were mistaken for Dutch we sort of froze because to that point no one had spoken Dutch to us before; the salesperson smiled and switched to English immediately.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 09:22
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Anonymous wrote:I was in Paris earlier in the year and found myself in a long line of people waiting to be served ice cream. If the server didn't think you were French, he/she went right to English. The family in front of me was German; they ordered in English.
I tried using my high school french in Paris and shop keepers and food vendors rolled their eyes at me. After that I just stuck to English from the start.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 09:00
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
I was in Paris earlier in the year and found myself in a long line of people waiting to be served ice cream. If the server didn't think you were French, he/she went right to English. The family in front of me was German; they ordered in English.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 08:55
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Anonymous wrote:It never, never, hurts to allow folks to *invite* you to speak English, though. I think at the very least, a polite greeting in someone's language is a sign of respect.
IOW, it's not always the language. Sometimes it's the assumption.
We have stopped asking "is English okay" when we are traveling in parts of Europe where everyone speaks English because it feels a little silly, but we always say hello, good-bye, and thank you in the native language as a sign of respect, as PP says.
To OP's observation, I think it's long been true (or at least the last decade) that English is the default language in countries where the native language isn't widely spoken outside the country (e.g., Slovenia, Hungary, Denmark), and less so in France, Germany, Austria, etc. But I did notice when we were in Austria last summer that there seemed to be much more default English than the last time we were there before the pandemic.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 08:32
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Yes, I was just in eastern Europe for the first time in 30 years. The last time I was there German was more useful than English. Now even Germans seem to default to English in places like Czechia.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 08:31
Subject: Re:Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
I vividly remember witnessing this over 30 years ago. I went skiing in Austria with my family. At lunchtime, we were sitting at a huge table slopeside and a group sat next to us. I didn't recognize what they were speaking - I think they were from one of the Scandinavian countries. The group spoke English with the server.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 06:57
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
It never, never, hurts to allow folks to *invite* you to speak English, though. I think at the very least, a polite greeting in someone's language is a sign of respect.
IOW, it's not always the language. Sometimes it's the assumption.
IOW, it's not always the language. Sometimes it's the assumption.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 06:30
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is just my observation and you might disagree.
I used to travel a lot before Covid, and now I’m traveling in Europe for the first time since 2019. Previously, I was always conditioned to believe that it was an “ugly American” thing to do to assume everyone should speak English and not try to use as much of the local language as you can.
My impressions are that over the years this has changed, especially for younger people. Since English is globally the unofficial international language, most people you interact with in Europe will know it to some degree. I have noticed that other Europeans are more likely to default to English with one another, unless they are fluent in a mutual, local language, whereas American tourists are more likely to muddle through a basic sentence in a local language. It seems like, at least in tourism-dominated, major cities, people would prefer you to just use English. While they may show superficial appreciation for your attempts at their language, they probably would rather just speak fluent English with you than waste their time listening to a terrible attempt at their own language. Unless you are FLUENT.
But of course, I could be wrong.
Two things can be right at the same time.
The “ugly American” attitude you mentioned is about Americans blasting English to natives without even asking if that’s ok. Without a “excuse me, do you speak English and can you help me?”
It’s more “excuse me, which way is downtown?”. And that can be annoying.
Fair point. Although I have noticed younger Europeans going immediately to English, it’s probably in primarily tourist centers and larger cities. It really does though seem that American tourists have been the most apologetic and trying to hide where they are from, especially from 2016-2021
Anonymous
08/13/2023 06:15
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
I was in Italy this spring and similarly noticed that English was the default. Italians and other European tourists usually spoke English to each other. The main language for tours was English too, so non-Italian tourists would generally be in the English-speaking tour groups.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 05:42
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
It depends where you are. I just came back from a tour, and everywhere we went everyone spoke some English, and all of the signs always had English on them. I had some basic phrases ready to go in the local language, but I barely needed them. Had I been on my own in a smaller town, I’m sure I would have run into situations where I would need to look things up. I haven’t been to Paris in years, and when I last went 20 years ago, I did need my French to get around, I wonder if that is also changing.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 05:33
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
Anonymous wrote:This is just my observation and you might disagree.
I used to travel a lot before Covid, and now I’m traveling in Europe for the first time since 2019. Previously, I was always conditioned to believe that it was an “ugly American” thing to do to assume everyone should speak English and not try to use as much of the local language as you can.
My impressions are that over the years this has changed, especially for younger people. Since English is globally the unofficial international language, most people you interact with in Europe will know it to some degree. I have noticed that other Europeans are more likely to default to English with one another, unless they are fluent in a mutual, local language, whereas American tourists are more likely to muddle through a basic sentence in a local language. It seems like, at least in tourism-dominated, major cities, people would prefer you to just use English. While they may show superficial appreciation for your attempts at their language, they probably would rather just speak fluent English with you than waste their time listening to a terrible attempt at their own language. Unless you are FLUENT.
But of course, I could be wrong.
Two things can be right at the same time.
The “ugly American” attitude you mentioned is about Americans blasting English to natives without even asking if that’s ok. Without a “excuse me, do you speak English and can you help me?”
It’s more “excuse me, which way is downtown?”. And that can be annoying.
Anonymous
08/13/2023 05:26
Subject: Americans, Europeans, and speaking English
This is just my observation and you might disagree.
I used to travel a lot before Covid, and now I’m traveling in Europe for the first time since 2019. Previously, I was always conditioned to believe that it was an “ugly American” thing to do to assume everyone should speak English and not try to use as much of the local language as you can.
My impressions are that over the years this has changed, especially for younger people. Since English is globally the unofficial international language, most people you interact with in Europe will know it to some degree. I have noticed that other Europeans are more likely to default to English with one another, unless they are fluent in a mutual, local language, whereas American tourists are more likely to muddle through a basic sentence in a local language. It seems like, at least in tourism-dominated, major cities, people would prefer you to just use English. While they may show superficial appreciation for your attempts at their language, they probably would rather just speak fluent English with you than waste their time listening to a terrible attempt at their own language. Unless you are FLUENT.
But of course, I could be wrong.
I used to travel a lot before Covid, and now I’m traveling in Europe for the first time since 2019. Previously, I was always conditioned to believe that it was an “ugly American” thing to do to assume everyone should speak English and not try to use as much of the local language as you can.
My impressions are that over the years this has changed, especially for younger people. Since English is globally the unofficial international language, most people you interact with in Europe will know it to some degree. I have noticed that other Europeans are more likely to default to English with one another, unless they are fluent in a mutual, local language, whereas American tourists are more likely to muddle through a basic sentence in a local language. It seems like, at least in tourism-dominated, major cities, people would prefer you to just use English. While they may show superficial appreciation for your attempts at their language, they probably would rather just speak fluent English with you than waste their time listening to a terrible attempt at their own language. Unless you are FLUENT.
But of course, I could be wrong.