Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

Two questions: what's with the asterisk? What's the problem with using the same few males to produce, assuming that the puppy contracts all say No breeding without our permission?

OP, I think this post summarizes Lancaster puppies and backyard breeders very well. They love their dogs, take good care of them, but are not responsible breeders and could be selling you a genetically sick puppy.

The problem is inbreeding. If the same two males are used for all litters then some of those litters will result from a male reproducing with his littermate, his daughter, or another close relation. This causes health problems.

Please don't support puppy Mills op.my god.

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

Two questions: what's with the asterisk? What's the problem with using the same few males to produce, assuming that the puppy contracts all say No breeding without our permission?

OP, I think this post summarizes Lancaster puppies and backyard breeders very well. They love their dogs, take good care of them, but are not responsible breeders and could be selling you a genetically sick puppy.

Our rescue sometimes gets the worn out breeder dogs from these Amish puppy mills. The farmer says he’s going to shoot the dogs on a certain day of the week and they need to be picked up before that .

I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

PLEASE do not support known puppy mills

Anonymous wrote:I've always adopted from reputable breeders with registration and health clearances, so I've always been a little snobby about the Amish puppy farms. But I now have a couple of friends that adopted wonderful healthy dogs from them, and I've been looking for a cavapoo for particular reasons and it seems like basically all of the cavapoos are from these Amish breeders in PA/OH.

Does anyone have any experience? Any way to differentiate the better ones from the more sketchy ones? (Or alternatively, anyplace else to get a cavapoo in driving distance in the next 6 months or so?)

I’ve gotten dogs from Lancaster three times (over a period of like four decades). All were great experiences. All came with papers and health clearances and up to date shots. All were well cared for and very loved. With the most recent one, they called and checked on the puppy a few times after we got her.

All of my dogs have been healthy. We’ve never had a health issue.

I don’t have any secrets for finding breeders. If I like them when I talk to them and if they are flexible in terms of making arrangements to visit, I just do it. If they don’t call back, I never call twice.

Anonymous wrote:Criticizing breeders is not allowed on breeder threads:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/947816.page

That says that you can't shame someone for buying vs rescuing or vice versa. It doesn't say anything about criticism of breeders or rescues themselves.

'You shouldn't by from a breeder you should only adopt from rescues' is not okay. 'Avoid Breeder X/Rescue Y because they abuse their animals' is okay.

Criticizing breeders is not allowed on breeder threads:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/947816.page

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always adopted from reputable breeders with registration and health clearances, so I've always been a little snobby about the Amish puppy farms. But I now have a couple of friends that adopted wonderful healthy dogs from them, and I've been looking for a cavapoo for particular reasons and it seems like basically all of the cavapoos are from these Amish breeders in PA/OH.

Does anyone have any experience? Any way to differentiate the better ones from the more sketchy ones? (Or alternatively, anyplace else to get a cavapoo in driving distance in the next 6 months or so?)

"Adopting" usually means from a rescue. You're talking purchasing.

But how long ago did your friends get their dogs? I have a friend who has a wonderful dog bought from an Amish puppy farm, he's truly been a great dog. However it became clear at a certain age that he had hip dysplasia (despite being "clear"). Dog is about 7 now and grown quite limited in activity because of it. Surgery is very expensive and no guarantee.

+1

These people do not breed responsibly, even if the dogs are housed and raised in reasonable conditions (which in most cases they are not - a quick Google search will show you how the Amish treat their animals).

Do not purchase a dog from these people.

Anonymous wrote:I've always adopted from reputable breeders with registration and health clearances, so I've always been a little snobby about the Amish puppy farms. But I now have a couple of friends that adopted wonderful healthy dogs from them, and I've been looking for a cavapoo for particular reasons and it seems like basically all of the cavapoos are from these Amish breeders in PA/OH.

Does anyone have any experience? Any way to differentiate the better ones from the more sketchy ones? (Or alternatively, anyplace else to get a cavapoo in driving distance in the next 6 months or so?)

"Adopting" usually means from a rescue. You're talking purchasing.

But how long ago did your friends get their dogs? I have a friend who has a wonderful dog bought from an Amish puppy farm, he's truly been a great dog. However it became clear at a certain age that he had hip dysplasia (despite being "clear"). Dog is about 7 now and grown quite limited in activity because of it. Surgery is very expensive and no guarantee.

Anonymous wrote:Please do not support these people. The puppy mills have horrible conditions, and in addition they treat the women in their community terribly! Abuse is rampant.

That had sort of been my assumption but my friends that have adopted say they visited the farms and the parents appear healthy and happy and that it seems like an old school backyard breeder or farm breeder situation — dogs not necessarily pampered but have a decent life living on barns on a farm as is common in many rural areas. So it seems like maybe there’s a spectrum of conditions across the Amish or Mennonite breeders?

Please do not support these people. The puppy mills have horrible conditions, and in addition they treat the women in their community terribly! Abuse is rampant.

I think you should substitute the word “wary” for “snobby”, and you would be right.

I've always adopted from reputable breeders with registration and health clearances, so I've always been a little snobby about the Amish puppy farms. But I now have a couple of friends that adopted wonderful healthy dogs from them, and I've been looking for a cavapoo for particular reasons and it seems like basically all of the cavapoos are from these Amish breeders in PA/OH.

Does anyone have any experience? Any way to differentiate the better ones from the more sketchy ones? (Or alternatively, anyplace else to get a cavapoo in driving distance in the next 6 months or so?)