Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 17:15     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:You need a policy they states the team uses the ladder and then NVSL (like what was pointed out repeatedly on the other thread) needs to change the policy/procedures and require seeded meet times to be shared. It is the only way to ensure transparency and guard against bias.


I agree with this.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 17:14     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:When you say who would talk to. First I would form a group of parents who all agree with you and discuss a plan and go from there. A large group of parents is way harder to brush off than one.


Don’t take this advice. I would not necessarily start a whisper campaign. I might ask my reps to clarify what the rules for seeding meets are. If the rules leave too many opportunities for a coach’s biases to enter the chat, advocate for a new policy. Don’t make it personal.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 17:00     Subject: Re:How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Here's the way I would approach this. . . I would send a note to the team representative and describe exactly what you've described here. Then conclude by saying. I understand that the coaches want to preserve some flexibility to make judgment calls and that there may be factors that shape those decisions that I'm not privy to. But, please consider whether doing so is disfavoring kids of color. Thanks for given this some thought and for all you do. . . .
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 16:23     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Swim always goes by times, so this isn't racism. Sure, its not necessarily "fair" but the other kid could be swimming with a year round group.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 16:16     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?

New poster in the thread but following with interest because of some issues on our team.

This situation is why I’m a big fan of clear rules and transparent decision making. I don’t doubt there are all kinds of biases that can enter a coach’s decision making—consciously or not. Swimming should be easy to make fair. Seed based on the times you have, to win points. it’s not hard.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:43     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the past our swim team has always used best times to decide who gets to go to A meets or other events. It was very clear cut. This year there is a new coach who usually uses times but has made a few decisions to disregard some kids' times and pick others. When a few parents raised the question he said it's due to the other kids being more consistently fast. I respect that and think that makes sense that sometimes kids have outlier times due to timing irregularities or other reasons.

But the thing I've noticed is that the decision of leaving things up to the discretion of the coach always results in the non-white swimmers not getting picked. The last A meet there was one swimmer who had an outlier time from a B meet who had not been improving, does not go to practices and just happened to get a time that was half a second faster than another swimmer who goes to practices, has been improving and has consistently gotten lower times. If we follow the coach's own stated logic for picking kids the more consistent swimmer should have been picked and not the kid with the outlier time. But the kid with the outlier time is white and the more consistent kid is not white. It's the same every time there are gray area cases and the coach just makes up a reason why the white swimmer is picked.

Would you point this out to someone? Who? I don't think the coach is openly racist but he seems to give white swimmers the benefit of the doubt while non-white swimmers are not given that respect. We are in a majority white area with all white coaches.


Is your kid the one being overlooked?

Either way, you are a parent, right? You don’t get to second-guess a coach. Stay in your lane, no pun intended.


People need to call out racism. It's in everyone's lane.

The intentions of the person isn't the point. Racism is about impact. If this coach's choices are disproportionately hurting children of color that needs to be addressed.

But, in order to address racism, OP needs to be willing to talk about race, even if that's difficult.


I think the issue is the ladder the ladder the ladder and it doesn’t matter race here - it would be just as unfair if anyone with a faster time was not going. By all means - be a martyr but IMO using race will make a thornier issue than it needs to be. You want to makes this the easiest problem is the world to solve and the least drama caused. Not the messiest situation to ever hit your swim team.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:41     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
When you say who would talk to. First I would form a group of parents who all agree with you and discuss a plan and go from there. A large group of parents is way harder to brush off than one.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:41     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the past our swim team has always used best times to decide who gets to go to A meets or other events. It was very clear cut. This year there is a new coach who usually uses times but has made a few decisions to disregard some kids' times and pick others. When a few parents raised the question he said it's due to the other kids being more consistently fast. I respect that and think that makes sense that sometimes kids have outlier times due to timing irregularities or other reasons.

But the thing I've noticed is that the decision of leaving things up to the discretion of the coach always results in the non-white swimmers not getting picked. The last A meet there was one swimmer who had an outlier time from a B meet who had not been improving, does not go to practices and just happened to get a time that was half a second faster than another swimmer who goes to practices, has been improving and has consistently gotten lower times. If we follow the coach's own stated logic for picking kids the more consistent swimmer should have been picked and not the kid with the outlier time. But the kid with the outlier time is white and the more consistent kid is not white. It's the same every time there are gray area cases and the coach just makes up a reason why the white swimmer is picked.

Would you point this out to someone? Who? I don't think the coach is openly racist but he seems to give white swimmers the benefit of the doubt while non-white swimmers are not given that respect. We are in a majority white area with all white coaches.


Is your kid the one being overlooked?

Either way, you are a parent, right? You don’t get to second-guess a coach. Stay in your lane, no pun intended.


People need to call out racism. It's in everyone's lane.

The intentions of the person isn't the point. Racism is about impact. If this coach's choices are disproportionately hurting children of color that needs to be addressed.

But, in order to address racism, OP needs to be willing to talk about race, even if that's difficult.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:39     Subject: Re:How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:Call it out. Its an unconscious bias- and needs to be called out.


Agree but you need actual facts and examples and not impressions.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:38     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:You need a policy they states the team uses the ladder and then NVSL (like what was pointed out repeatedly on the other thread) needs to change the policy/procedures and require seeded meet times to be shared. It is the only way to ensure transparency and guard against bias.


+1
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:19     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
You need a policy they states the team uses the ladder and then NVSL (like what was pointed out repeatedly on the other thread) needs to change the policy/procedures and require seeded meet times to be shared. It is the only way to ensure transparency and guard against bias.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 14:17     Subject: Re:How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Call it out. Its an unconscious bias- and needs to be called out.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 13:54     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Anonymous wrote:In the past our swim team has always used best times to decide who gets to go to A meets or other events. It was very clear cut. This year there is a new coach who usually uses times but has made a few decisions to disregard some kids' times and pick others. When a few parents raised the question he said it's due to the other kids being more consistently fast. I respect that and think that makes sense that sometimes kids have outlier times due to timing irregularities or other reasons.

But the thing I've noticed is that the decision of leaving things up to the discretion of the coach always results in the non-white swimmers not getting picked. The last A meet there was one swimmer who had an outlier time from a B meet who had not been improving, does not go to practices and just happened to get a time that was half a second faster than another swimmer who goes to practices, has been improving and has consistently gotten lower times. If we follow the coach's own stated logic for picking kids the more consistent swimmer should have been picked and not the kid with the outlier time. But the kid with the outlier time is white and the more consistent kid is not white. It's the same every time there are gray area cases and the coach just makes up a reason why the white swimmer is picked.

Would you point this out to someone? Who? I don't think the coach is openly racist but he seems to give white swimmers the benefit of the doubt while non-white swimmers are not given that respect. We are in a majority white area with all white coaches.


Is your kid the one being overlooked?

Either way, you are a parent, right? You don’t get to second-guess a coach. Stay in your lane, no pun intended.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 13:43     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
Our team uses that ladder only. I think that’s the only fair way to do it, IMO.

It sounds like you’re not going to get anywhere with the coach though.

Who hires the coach? The pool board? That’s how it works at our pool. Have you spoken to the team rep?
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2023 13:39     Subject: How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?
In the past our swim team has always used best times to decide who gets to go to A meets or other events. It was very clear cut. This year there is a new coach who usually uses times but has made a few decisions to disregard some kids' times and pick others. When a few parents raised the question he said it's due to the other kids being more consistently fast. I respect that and think that makes sense that sometimes kids have outlier times due to timing irregularities or other reasons.

But the thing I've noticed is that the decision of leaving things up to the discretion of the coach always results in the non-white swimmers not getting picked. The last A meet there was one swimmer who had an outlier time from a B meet who had not been improving, does not go to practices and just happened to get a time that was half a second faster than another swimmer who goes to practices, has been improving and has consistently gotten lower times. If we follow the coach's own stated logic for picking kids the more consistent swimmer should have been picked and not the kid with the outlier time. But the kid with the outlier time is white and the more consistent kid is not white. It's the same every time there are gray area cases and the coach just makes up a reason why the white swimmer is picked.

Would you point this out to someone? Who? I don't think the coach is openly racist but he seems to give white swimmers the benefit of the doubt while non-white swimmers are not given that respect. We are in a majority white area with all white coaches.