Anonymous
06/15/2023 13:06
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.
Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.
Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.
At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.
I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.
NP. Thank you for being a S/T judge. I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong with the parents who would confront an official about a DQ ever, let alone at a summer swim B meet. Jesus Christ.
+1
These parents are nuts!
OP - did they think you were wrong? Or did they think you should have let it slide because it’s a B meet?
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:57
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.
Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.
Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.
At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.
I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.
NP. Thank you for being a S/T judge. I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong with the parents who would confront an official about a DQ ever, let alone at a summer swim B meet. Jesus Christ.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:45
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like they DQ’d.
Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.
Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.
At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.
I’m actually the OP and I am a stroke and turn judge - I DQed the kid for this. The swimmer got really upset and his parents did too, and they let me know. I just wanted to confirm that I got the call right.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:41
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
I’m a stroke and turn judge and in my experience breaststroke is the hardest event to judge, especially in a B meet, because SO many kids DQ. It’s hard to keep track of all of them and to fill out the DQ cards before the start of the next event, especially in a B meet because the officials often tell you not to raise your hand so they can keep the merry moving along.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:41
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Sounds like they DQ’d.
Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.
Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.
At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.
Benefit of doubt foes to the swimmer.
Stroke and turn officials are human volunteers. They make mistakes and we are still nice to them because they’re our friends and neighbors.
At the Olympics, I think there’s a S/T official for each lane and each end of the pool to avoid this problem. Unless your child is trying to qualify for nationals, I would let it go. Seriously. My mom talks about pushy, abrasive parents twenty years later. Nobody remembers the times, but they’ll remember negative interactions for decades.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:19
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:That would be a DQ as others mentioned. I am training to be a S&T judge and I’m surprised at how much actually gets missed. Normally two people each watch 3 lanes, with one person at each end of the pool. Being in training means you watch and are basically an extra pair of eyes who can’t actually make the calls. There have been things I’ve seen that the “real” official kissed and vice versa. I know for a fact my own kid has benefited from missed calls. Human error definitely comes into play just like it does for refereeing a sport. I don’t see anything wrong with pointing out something illegal in you child’s swimming even if they didn’t DQ because chances are it will DQ them the next time. Our coaches aren’t always good at following up on DQs so if you see something might as well point it out. Just make sure you’re giving them correct info.
Two people watching 3 lanes is really 1 person watching three lanes because you only have jurisdiction on your half of the pool to make a call. You also scan the swimmers and you want to watch touches for breast turns. If another kid is coming into the wall when OP's kid is leaving, but the time the judge returns to OP's kid they are probably swimming a legal stroke
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:16
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
That would be a DQ as others mentioned. I am training to be a S&T judge and I’m surprised at how much actually gets missed. Normally two people each watch 3 lanes, with one person at each end of the pool. Being in training means you watch and are basically an extra pair of eyes who can’t actually make the calls. There have been things I’ve seen that the “real” official kissed and vice versa. I know for a fact my own kid has benefited from missed calls. Human error definitely comes into play just like it does for refereeing a sport. I don’t see anything wrong with pointing out something illegal in you child’s swimming even if they didn’t DQ because chances are it will DQ them the next time. Our coaches aren’t always good at following up on DQs so if you see something might as well point it out. Just make sure you’re giving them correct info.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 12:02
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:Last night at my sons B meet, I was unsure about whether something counted as a DQ during a breastroke event. During the swimmer’s underwater pullout, he did two breastroke kicks underwater before breaking the surface. It’s my understanding that in MCSL swimmers can take one full breastroke kick where they pull their arms all the way down and a dolphin kick (and the dolphin kick can come at any point this year), but they can’t take multiple underwater breastroke kicks underwater before breaking the surface. Would this be a DQ?
Technically as you describe it, yes.
But this is a B meet(the first one of the season), not the Olympics so calm down.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 11:20
Subject: Re:Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. S&T judge here.
Yes that would be a DQ however if he ended up with a legal time it’s possible that the judge missed it and was looking at the other two lanes when it occurred.
Also OP said night. If you are swimming under the lights, it gets harder to see underwater kicks and benefit of the doubt goes to the swimmer.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 11:19
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Were u at the Tanterra pool last night OP? I was there too.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 11:17
Subject: Re:Swim question re: breaststroke
Hi OP. S&T judge here.
Yes that would be a DQ however if he ended up with a legal time it’s possible that the judge missed it and was looking at the other two lanes when it occurred.
Yes that would be a DQ however if he ended up with a legal time it’s possible that the judge missed it and was looking at the other two lanes when it occurred.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 11:17
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Anonymous wrote:Last night at my sons B meet, I was unsure about whether something counted as a DQ during a breastroke event. During the swimmer’s underwater pullout, he did two breastroke kicks underwater before breaking the surface. It’s my understanding that in MCSL swimmers can take one full breastroke kick where they pull their arms all the way down and a dolphin kick (and the dolphin kick can come at any point this year), but they can’t take multiple underwater breastroke kicks underwater before breaking the surface. Would this be a DQ?
Official here. Hard to know without seeing it but sounds like a DQ for out of cycle.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 11:13
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
OP- Breast stroke has a lot of components to it to be legal and official. I am not trying to sound mean, but the official will call a DQ. If you are not an official, than it is not really your concern if a stroke is legal or not. Coaches receive DQ slips from the meet officials, and they will work with the swimmer to correct any issue. I am a long time swim parent and I was never an official. My swimmers were dqed and sometimes it was obivious to me (2 hand touch), but many times it was not. I never tried to coach my kid on legal strokes.
Anonymous
06/15/2023 07:54
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
As you describe it that would be a DQ.
But the benefit of the doubt goes to the swimmer and it is hard to catch all the mistakes in multiple lanes all at once.
The relevant rules are:
During each complete cycle, some part of the swimmer’s head shall break the surface of the
water. After the start and after each turn, the swimmer may take one arm stroke completely
back to the legs. The head must break the surface of the water before the hands turn inward at the widest part of the second stroke.
After the start and each turn, at any time prior to the first breaststroke kick, a single
butterfly kick is permitted. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous
without alternating movement
But the benefit of the doubt goes to the swimmer and it is hard to catch all the mistakes in multiple lanes all at once.
The relevant rules are:
During each complete cycle, some part of the swimmer’s head shall break the surface of the
water. After the start and after each turn, the swimmer may take one arm stroke completely
back to the legs. The head must break the surface of the water before the hands turn inward at the widest part of the second stroke.
After the start and each turn, at any time prior to the first breaststroke kick, a single
butterfly kick is permitted. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous
without alternating movement
Anonymous
06/15/2023 07:27
Subject: Swim question re: breaststroke
Last night at my sons B meet, I was unsure about whether something counted as a DQ during a breastroke event. During the swimmer’s underwater pullout, he did two breastroke kicks underwater before breaking the surface. It’s my understanding that in MCSL swimmers can take one full breastroke kick where they pull their arms all the way down and a dolphin kick (and the dolphin kick can come at any point this year), but they can’t take multiple underwater breastroke kicks underwater before breaking the surface. Would this be a DQ?