Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If its really high where would the improvement come from? They don't teach 90th percentile math in K. So unless you're supplementing heavily he is not learning new things. The testis self adjusting. So if he gets a correct answer then he gets a harder questions. The test goes beyond K concepts.
They are normed by county or state as well.
My kid was at 99th percentile in K and is now at 96th. Since more kids are catching up to her. We do a lot of math outside of school because she enjoys it. But i have no idea what is on the test and if it covers what we are learning.

It’s this. MCPS doesn’t teach 90+ MAP percentile math to kids because to score that high a student needs to be doing things that are grade levels above their actual grade. The easiest time to do that is in K so unless you supplement at home, you’re likely to see your kid’s score start to even decline. It’s not an aptitude test. It tests whether a student has been exposed to and therefore can answer questions about mathematical concepts.

Maybe you hadn't noticed MCPS doesn't teach 90%+ kids in any grade. If a kid is above grade level in ES, they get nada.

For early ES, I felt like I was solely responsible for teaching my kids math and reading. MCPS just provides convenient child care.

That’s pretty much how I feel too. Minimal grammar instruction. My DC was struggling with reading and writing and her awful kindergarten teacher’s advice was for me to use google. She’s now in the second percentile, no thanks to those lazy teachers at that ES. There are a couple gems there but mostly terrible.

I wouldn't describe the teachers as lazy. I just get the sense at our school they're so focused on the achievement gap that any kid who isn't struggling (even just average) is ignored. Some kids get reading groups a few times a week whereas average kids get them every couple of months. When I asked about this, the teacher said, "We don't use groups anymore" which sounds like an excuse to me.

Anonymous wrote:If the percentile is flat over time, it doesn’t mean the student is not learning- they are learning at the same rate as other kids and making progress- on MAP tests if the RIT score is flat then the student is not making progress.

A student can’t stay at the 90th percentile and not be learning, unless everyone is…a percentile isn’t the score on the test, it’s how the score compares to everyone else’s score in the same testing period of the same age or grade (depending on how it is normed).

Not quite, the percentile is how the score compares the norms that were set in 2020. If everyone gets better, the "percentile" goes up for everyone.

With COVID and virtual learning / not-learning on 2020, I suspect that if norms were recalculated, the percentiles would change a lot.

https://www.nwea.org/blog/2021/six-commonly-used-map-growth-terms-worth-knowing/A

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If its really high where would the improvement come from? They don't teach 90th percentile math in K. So unless you're supplementing heavily he is not learning new things. The testis self adjusting. So if he gets a correct answer then he gets a harder questions. The test goes beyond K concepts.
They are normed by county or state as well.
My kid was at 99th percentile in K and is now at 96th. Since more kids are catching up to her. We do a lot of math outside of school because she enjoys it. But i have no idea what is on the test and if it covers what we are learning.

It’s this. MCPS doesn’t teach 90+ MAP percentile math to kids because to score that high a student needs to be doing things that are grade levels above their actual grade. The easiest time to do that is in K so unless you supplement at home, you’re likely to see your kid’s score start to even decline. It’s not an aptitude test. It tests whether a student has been exposed to and therefore can answer questions about mathematical concepts.

Maybe you hadn't noticed MCPS doesn't teach 90%+ kids in any grade. If a kid is above grade level in ES, they get nada.

For early ES, I felt like I was solely responsible for teaching my kids math and reading. MCPS just provides convenient child care.

That’s pretty much how I feel too. Minimal grammar instruction. My DC was struggling with reading and writing and her awful kindergarten teacher’s advice was for me to use google. She’s now in the second percentile, no thanks to those lazy teachers at that ES. There are a couple gems there but mostly terrible.

MAP in K is worthless. Half the kids don't even understand how to use the janky computer program, and the other half don't care.

Check the scores again next year, OP.

Some classrooms are very lax with how KGers take map. Really even most KGers are lax when they take the NWEA, this test right now is just to get them used to taking any sort of computer test.

When my DD was in KG, she got really low scores. Alarming, until I realized that other kids finished before her so they placed her in the hallway outside the classroom to finish the test. All the activity going on in the hallway was very distracting to her and reflected in her scores.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, all. Appreciate the responses.

To clarify, the percentile has decreased each time. The raw score has been flat within a 5 points or so either way. The flat raw score is my concern.

We don't supplement at home so that answers my question.

That makes sense, and it not cause for concern. Imagine it this way. Maybe the most advanced math your child knows is two-digit addition, which would be impressive for a kid in K. That put them in the 90th percentile for their age. But as time has gone on, other kids are also mastering two-digit addition, so the percentile is dropping.

That's nothing to worry about! It's normal and fine. If your child is already above grade level, count your blessings and use this time to bolster them in other areas. Music, art, languages - you don't have to worry about getting them up to grade level, so focus on something else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If its really high where would the improvement come from? They don't teach 90th percentile math in K. So unless you're supplementing heavily he is not learning new things. The testis self adjusting. So if he gets a correct answer then he gets a harder questions. The test goes beyond K concepts.
They are normed by county or state as well.
My kid was at 99th percentile in K and is now at 96th. Since more kids are catching up to her. We do a lot of math outside of school because she enjoys it. But i have no idea what is on the test and if it covers what we are learning.

It’s this. MCPS doesn’t teach 90+ MAP percentile math to kids because to score that high a student needs to be doing things that are grade levels above their actual grade. The easiest time to do that is in K so unless you supplement at home, you’re likely to see your kid’s score start to even decline. It’s not an aptitude test. It tests whether a student has been exposed to and therefore can answer questions about mathematical concepts.

Maybe you hadn't noticed MCPS doesn't teach 90%+ kids in any grade. If a kid is above grade level in ES, they get nada.

For early ES, I felt like I was solely responsible for teaching my kids math and reading. MCPS just provides convenient child care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If its really high where would the improvement come from? They don't teach 90th percentile math in K. So unless you're supplementing heavily he is not learning new things. The testis self adjusting. So if he gets a correct answer then he gets a harder questions. The test goes beyond K concepts.
They are normed by county or state as well.
My kid was at 99th percentile in K and is now at 96th. Since more kids are catching up to her. We do a lot of math outside of school because she enjoys it. But i have no idea what is on the test and if it covers what we are learning.

It’s this. MCPS doesn’t teach 90+ MAP percentile math to kids because to score that high a student needs to be doing things that are grade levels above their actual grade. The easiest time to do that is in K so unless you supplement at home, you’re likely to see your kid’s score start to even decline. It’s not an aptitude test. It tests whether a student has been exposed to and therefore can answer questions about mathematical concepts.

Maybe you hadn't noticed MCPS doesn't teach 90%+ kids in any grade. If a kid is above grade level in ES, they get nada.

Thank you, all. Appreciate the responses.

To clarify, the percentile has decreased each time. The raw score has been flat within a 5 points or so either way. The flat raw score is my concern.

We don't supplement at home so that answers my question.

The above explanations hold water.

In addition, there is going to be some natural variability across tests, especially those of this type. Standardized and adaptive are fine, if viewed properly through this lens. They aren't going to be highly accurate spot representations of an individual student's capability, but reasonably accurate enough, other than when taken in extenuating circumstances (ill/other unusual stressor that day, chromebook not responding, etc.), to help a teacher "hone the lesson" to a student's need. With enough data (multiple tests over multiple years), the trends seen are also reasonably accurate.

When the averaged performance of a whole class, school or district is considered, the implied accuracy becomes much higher, though one has to be careful about the kind of statistical analysis one is doing when presenting associated findings to the BOE/public or when using them to justify policies (just like anything else, especially when there are political considerations in play).

Where these are not very accurate is in definitively representing an individual student's capability (or even achievement) at a particular point in time (single test or comparing one single test to the next). OP should not be concerned about their DC's score at this point in relation to their DC's ability to learn, especially with the other explanations given, here. OP may want to review with their DC and/or teacher the kinds of material that are being covered in the curriculum, though, and given MCPS's approach to identifying candidates for criteria-based programsr, which rely on single-test scores, OP may have a legitimate concern for the future.

If the percentile is flat over time, it doesn’t mean the student is not learning- they are learning at the same rate as other kids and making progress- on MAP tests if the RIT score is flat then the student is not making progress.

A student can’t stay at the 90th percentile and not be learning, unless everyone is…a percentile isn’t the score on the test, it’s how the score compares to everyone else’s score in the same testing period of the same age or grade (depending on how it is normed).

Anonymous wrote:If its really high where would the improvement come from? They don't teach 90th percentile math in K. So unless you're supplementing heavily he is not learning new things. The testis self adjusting. So if he gets a correct answer then he gets a harder questions. The test goes beyond K concepts.
They are normed by county or state as well.
My kid was at 99th percentile in K and is now at 96th. Since more kids are catching up to her. We do a lot of math outside of school because she enjoys it. But i have no idea what is on the test and if it covers what we are learning.

It’s this. MCPS doesn’t teach 90+ MAP percentile math to kids because to score that high a student needs to be doing things that are grade levels above their actual grade. The easiest time to do that is in K so unless you supplement at home, you’re likely to see your kid’s score start to even decline. It’s not an aptitude test. It tests whether a student has been exposed to and therefore can answer questions about mathematical concepts.

MAP scores bounce around. Somehow I doubt your Kindergartner is really strategic with test taking skills!

If its really high where would the improvement come from? They don't teach 90th percentile math in K. So unless you're supplementing heavily he is not learning new things. The testis self adjusting. So if he gets a correct answer then he gets a harder questions. The test goes beyond K concepts.
They are normed by county or state as well.
My kid was at 99th percentile in K and is now at 96th. Since more kids are catching up to her. We do a lot of math outside of school because she enjoys it. But i have no idea what is on the test and if it covers what we are learning.

First time kindergarten parent here. My child took the map 3 times this year (math only). The score was flat - went down slightly then up slightly. Isn't the idea to improve? What does this tell me? The scores are in a very high percentile but the lack of growth has me concerned. Thoughts? Suggestions? (Teacher is not helpful.) Thank you.