The idea that the initial reaction was "wrong" is silly because people were responding in real time to a global crisis causing millions of people to die. If we "overreacted" to that, so be it. It is preferable to the alternative.

I also think it's ghoulish to basically say the lives saved were not "worth it" because of later impacts. Consider that when an able-bodied adult with children dies unexpectedly of something like Covid, there are massive impacts on that person's family and community that reverberate for decades. That's not being factored in.

Having said that, I do actually think it's very worthwhile to discuss what we did well and what we didn't do well, and I to me it's obvious that after the initial crisis, we made some errors in judgment that likely had minimal to no benefit in terms of lives saved while having high social costs. Thinking about the length of school closures in some areas, including the DMV (even after vaccines were available and after schools in other parts of the world demonstrated ways to reopen safely). I also think a major mistake we made in the US was linking public health measures like masking and social distancing with morality, instead of simply linking them to health. We made wearing a mask a way of signaling your political positions, which almost certainly made it harder to get people to mask.

Compare this with the approach in many other countries where public health decisions are made fairly separate from political activity and people are simply told "do this to keep yourself and others more healthy" and you see less conflict over simple precautions like wearing a mask, washing hands, etc. You also see that some people in those countries don't comply for whatever reason, and there's more tolerance/understanding that you're probably never going to get 100% compliance with anything and that's life because people are not automatons.

There are valuable conversations to be had. Whether the shutdowns in March/April 2020 were justified is probably one of the more fruitless conversations. It was a massive crisis and mistakes were inevitable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we not? Please? Covid is done, get over it. I'm sick of you people - who never did anything to protect others during the pandemic anyway - complaining about something that happened three years ago.

This. Sorry your ski trip in 2020 got canceled or whatever. Cope.

I went on my ski trip and had a wonderful time.

That's from the institute of economic affairs...I'm skeptical of their conclusions about how many lives lockdowns saved.

I do think that NOVA closed schools for too long but that's just because we can easily compare what happened in places that did and places that didn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

Yeah, sure. Tell that to those who died. What an idiot.

Tell that to those suffering from economic losses, tell that to those still suffering from mental health challenges…tell that to the millions of developmentally delayed children you troll.

I think this was something we had not really had to deal with in modern history, so we didn't understand the repercussions of large scale long term impacts.

Even so, in the beginning, when we didn't know how to treat covid, or how contagious it was, I can understand why we went onto lockdown.

Hindsight is always 20/20. If we hadn't locked down early on, how many more would've died? This is unknowable.

Places like FL had weather that was less conducive to the virus spreading. Most of the cities in FL don't have as much dense housing as say NYC, LA, etc.

Hopefully, our leaders have learned something from this pandemic so that the next time we get a pandemic (and I'm sure it will happen), they have a better response plan.

Reports like what OP posted is a bit worrisome though because some people will see that as a justification to not quarantine when we get another pandemic, and next time, it could be way worse than covid, and some people's lackadaisical response could mean more deaths.

Anonymous wrote:Can we not? Please? Covid is done, get over it. I'm sick of you people - who never did anything to protect others during the pandemic anyway - complaining about something that happened three years ago.

NP. So are you also against studying history? You know, since it’s in the past? I don’t necessarily agree with OP’s commentary, but of course we need to analyze & learn from responses like this, so we can do better in the future.

I agree with you OP. Response was a disaster. But given the intolerant slant of this message board you will get a lot of hate.

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

Oh STFU. This wa not a failure. It was an evolving attempt to deal with a situation we had not seen in 100 years and were grappling with what to do. I gave up nothing significant if it meant I didn't pass on a virus that could kill someone. Don't rely on study to justify you being a selfish twat. And an ignorant one at that.

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

So they're saying that if we had had no shutdowns, then flu deaths would not have been in addition to covid deaths?

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

That's interesting math they're using, reducing mortality and then inferring lives saved from it. Are they acknowledging that alpha was much worse than beta, which was much worse than delta, which was much worse than omicron, etc.? And that the shutdowns allowed enough time for those unlucky people to incubate new less-virulent strains that eventually have infected most of the planet?

Anonymous wrote:Can we not? Please? Covid is done, get over it. I'm sick of you people - who never did anything to protect others during the pandemic anyway - complaining about something that happened three years ago.

This. Sorry your ski trip in 2020 got canceled or whatever. Cope.

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

Yeah, sure. Tell that to those who died. What an idiot.

Bethany? That you? Your thread is on the political board, sweetie.

Can we not? Please? Covid is done, get over it. I'm sick of you people - who never did anything to protect others during the pandemic anyway - complaining about something that happened three years ago.

Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.