Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

I thought SAT subject tests were no longer being offered?

Test-optional adds to the uncertainty and STRESS.

This is the end result. People are not as confident they will get in, and therefore second-guess themselves, agonize and apply to more schools, which creates more work and more stress for everyone.

And as a poster said above, there aren't more seats in college. It is a zero sum game. Admissions officers taking a chance on a test-optional student WILL have to reject an academically qualified high stats student for that option!

So I disagree with the dismissive posters above regarding test-optional. Test-optional is actually the reason some students are not accepted. Literally.

Now yield protection is different: you can bypass that by demonstrating interest, and customizing your essay to make sure the college knows it isn't just a last recourse. All colleges want is a little courtesy in that regard, even though looking at stats, they are well aware they won't be the first choice. But again, customizing essays, visits and interviews are adding STRESS to the process.

So all this atmosphere leads to more stress than previously. This is not healthy or acceptable. No other country does college admissions this way, and the USA should not either!!!

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

I don’t think you know what the word “gifted” means. It means raw intelligence.

SAT subject tests & AP tests are highly dependent on what you were taught in high school. I lol’ed at the inclusion of “AP Scholar” in that list in particular. If you go to a high school where AP pass rates are very low, it’s unlikely that you’ll pass, either. And many high schools only discount AP exams for FARMs students. So, if you’re not FARMs, then you have to pay $90/exam, which many students & families don’t have the resources to pay. Not sure exactly how many AP exams you have to get X score on to be considered an AP scholar, but at many high schools (both public & private), only a few AP classes are offered, and the school doesn’t let kids take them until junior year. The scheduling that year might make it such that it’s only possible to take 2-3 AP classes. The school isn’t go to facilitate you “self-studying” for an AP exam, and your non-AP classes aren’t similar to APs.

As for SAT subject tests, many students must drive far to get to a venue that administers the SAT, and then they’d have to drive to it again to take subject tests. And pay what can add up to a hefty price when it’s all said & done to do so. It can be difficult to take SAT subject tests when you don’t know a single person at school who’s taken them & know nothing about them.

My marriage is zest optional!

It’s what happen when schools seek out diversity instead of the best and brightest. Educators only way to close the education gap is to drop the ceiling to the floor.

So admissions become a game of craps.

It's a ZERO SUM GAME.

If a lower score kid got lucky and got in with TO when otherwise wouldn't have even applied, there's another kid with higher score didn't get in.

Rest optional does seem to be a feature of college applications, and not to the benefit of the student. Make sure your high schoolers are getting sleep!

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

Yeah. Tried that approach with Minorities and Women in this country till a few decades ago. I don't think they liked it or were willing to abide by it. They refused to listen to this kind of lame @*s rationalizations and instead demanded that society do better

I always laugh when DCUM posters say their kid didn’t get in because of “yield protection.” They’re basically saying “my kid is too good for the school.”

Yeah. Right.

Correct.

Again, I would ask people to look at the trend of videos of YouTube where student who DID get in to major colleges request to see their admissions records. You can see these in a private room upon request but cannot walk away with the files. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, got in schools for the reason they think. And these are the people who were not rejected. It basically boils down to school really wanting abut 20% of the students who apply and pretty much the other 80% of admitted students are a a toss up.

Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

So every school announcing record high applications and record low admissions is just … lying?

They’re all lying when they announce that they’ve admitted 50% of their class test optional?

Agree

Anonymous wrote:Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.

+1000.

Read this 2019 article from the NYT? Sound familiar?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/magazine/almost-all-the-colleges-i-wanted-to-go-to-rejected-me-now-what.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR33p-Nhl1mO5BSmjk461YIxU1iqqvLZ5moObJWGaE2-iV7bm-csPn0xEFU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Kids have been getting rejected from Uber-competitor schools for a very long time. This was pre-COVID, pre-TO.

I realize there is an impulse to look for something to blame if your kid is rejected from their dream school or most of their targets. But it’s important to remember that your kid is the common denominator (especially with multiple rejections). There is obviously something deficient in the application for the kinds of schools targeted — maybe the essay is bad, maybe you didn’t take enough foreign language, maybe the ECs are spread too thin and don’t demonstrate passion and commitment over time?

What impressed me about the letter writer in the article was he seems to recognizes that instead of casting blame on others. At least there’s some acknowledgment he’s dealing with a bruised ego. That said, his attitude about the schools he did get into leaves a lot to be desired.

I feel bad for kids who faced a lot of rejection this year. But telling them it’s because test optional let lesser kids sneak in and steal their birthright admission isn’t helping them deal with reality. Learn to make the best of the opportunities you ARE given.