Anonymous
04/22/2023 21:33
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
I just posted, but one thing the social worker does do is have someone evaluate for driving. I think it has to do with reflexes and other stuff. I don't ask. I just needed to know she had someone who could assure me mom was still safe to drive. So that is a big bonus and I expect SW to handle it when mom can no longer drive.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 21:30
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, we should meet for coffee. I could have written half of this or more. Are there really NAMI groups for children of those with personality disorders? Anyone have a link.
I agree to an extent with the poster who said Golden Children are victims too, but some get help and want to break the cycle and some join in the abuse. My GC sibling joined in the abuse and will absolutely inherit far more doing far less.
Honestly, my life got so crazy I was going to lose it if I didn't set boundaries and do some rope dropping. I had to detach and distance. didn't go over well, but I had my own health crisis so it was easier to do as literal survival.
We do have a geriatric social worker involved though and mom pays for it. She hooted, hollered, tantrummed and told me I was a selfish Biotch, but eventually she agreed to it because she wants to live as long as possible and have the best care.
I do think some are already taking advantage, but nothing criminal. Mom would never go to therapy. Instead her housekeeper, gardener, hairdresser and accountant are her "yes" people, BFFs and "therapists" in her mind. I am always hearing about she paid the housekeeper to have tea with her and listen to her vent about us or she paid the accountant to listen to her discuss for the 176th time if she needs to re-do her will and cut me out. She's getting a bargain with the housekeeper, hairdresser and gardener listening to her vent, but with the amount her accountant charges, the accountant will probably buy herself a new car just from charging a fortune to kiss up to my mom rather than just referring her to a therapist.
I will try to find the NAMI link a friend sent, it looked real.
Your post is so funny, my brother says the same thing about the cleaning lady, gardner, hairdresser, etc being paid to socialize. And she DOES vent about us, one provider recently said that I'm so nice and helpful, nothing like what my mother described, lol. Since then they all swarm me with info on things that need to happen and since I can't execute any of it, I've been feeling overwhelmed.
I wish my brother would get help. He still says he would have had a happy childhood but for me but that could not have been true with such ill parents and twisted dynamics. He drinks, like them, and has poor relationships with his kids, it makes me sad. I try to keep in touch with them but having always heard me devalued, they are not all that interested. He's been married several times and that has been hard on them too.
When my mom was recently hospitalized and then discharged to rehab, she treated the staff like she treats me and my brother's wife. They sent the psychiatrist in regularly. Alas he thought medicating was too risky in light of everything with other heatlh conditions. If the anxiety was lower I think it might help the lashing out, I dunno. They all commented on how quickly her moods changed and would joke about her yelling at us on the phone and them being able to hear it from the nurses station. It was nice to have others see the reality. I brought them cookies pretty often, they were a little buffer and bit of normal and I appreciated that.
How did you find the social worker? That is what is needed, I think. That was a genius idea.
It makes such a difference when anyone acknowledges my mom is bat shit crazy. For so long I would gaslight myself and blame myself. I actually feel relief when I hear about doctors, contractors, etc firing her and telling her off because at least she is finally showing the dark side to someone other than me. It reminds me it's not me, it's HER! I laughed at your story because when mom was in the hospital or when dad was back in the day, they often got psychiatry involved because her behavior was so atrocious to staff and to my dad (may he rest on peace).
I found the social worker through my therapist at the time who worked with a lot of people with crazy elderly parents. The service itself was known to be good, but it wasn't this specific person she recommended. Mom only agreed to the least experienced and youngest person there who she handpicked because I think she felt she could charm, manipulate and boss around. Fine with me, because I made sure she used her own money-of which she has plenty. There are issues and in many ways it's not ideal, but mom is willing to let this woman in the door which is huge. Actually she is another one I should add to the list who I think mom pays for the kind of therapy she wants...someone listening and agreeing with her, but I do think this woman can get her to do things like agree with PT. The thing is, this woman is trained to assess things and she can be objective. One of my siblings had a ton of denial so it's helpful to have someone else saying what is going on with decline. Also, I feel like at least I can ensure mom is safe and will be able to be taken care appropriately. I resent all I have been through with her, but I still want to make sure she is safe and getting the appropriate care.
You could probably find a good geriatric social worker through her neurology office (if she has one) or through any neuro office that works with elderly. Try Council on Aging as well and even just try out ones in the area. It doesn't need to be perfect. You just need someone who can get in there, connect with her, assess her needs and find contractors as needed (aides, etc). My friend's mother would not open the door for anyone, so just find someone who can charm mom enough to get in there!
I will tell you some distance has been a bit healing. I feel completely crazy when I deal with her, but seeing her less, I feel like myself. I can see how mentally ill she is and I am realizing this was all always there, it just got worse with age. I sleep better and am no longer consumed with self-hatred. A lot of my negative inner voice was just quoting her! Also, I set a big boundary with her that I do not want to hear about her money every again-she can do what she wants, but I will no longer listen to threats to cut me out, guilt trips over free college and grad school, why she's giving GC more or it all, and whatever else.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 21:03
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:Drop the rope, OP. Just drop it.
Good advice, will try harder to follow. I have been low contact for so long that I just don't have the skill set for this level of chaos. My mom should have enough money to live on but people are right that there should be someone as an alert on accounts to avoid problems as an example. It's hard to see simple things not done and wait for the next shoe to drop that was easily avoided. She has a lot of people in and out, refuses to use her safe, instead leaving her checkbook out, etc. and the neighbors call or text concern. And if she runs out of money because she was scammed that will be a whole different problem. I overestimated my ability to apply reasonable to a situation where my mom thrives on chaos and on denigrating me and offers of help are seen as an insult.
I have a family and stressful job and keep trying to plan ways out of a situation where there is no role for me. I think that has echoes of the past and that has also kept me stuck, along with grief. It's really taking a toll, headaches, trouble sleeping, etc. in the past week.
How might some contact look with dropping rope of responsibility? Anyone have a script for me to try? If I call and there is some crisis, instead of trying to rescue or plan, how do I respond? I have a hard time thinking in the moment. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 20:55
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:Get some therapy, OP. You have serious issues.
+1
Anonymous
04/22/2023 20:52
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
She will relive everything she did (and is still doing) to you shortly when. She meets God. If it's painful, go no contact. Why in the world would you even consider taking this money (as if you would get it). Take care of your own children, heal, move on.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 20:40
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:Wow, we should meet for coffee. I could have written half of this or more. Are there really NAMI groups for children of those with personality disorders? Anyone have a link.
I agree to an extent with the poster who said Golden Children are victims too, but some get help and want to break the cycle and some join in the abuse. My GC sibling joined in the abuse and will absolutely inherit far more doing far less.
Honestly, my life got so crazy I was going to lose it if I didn't set boundaries and do some rope dropping. I had to detach and distance. didn't go over well, but I had my own health crisis so it was easier to do as literal survival.
We do have a geriatric social worker involved though and mom pays for it. She hooted, hollered, tantrummed and told me I was a selfish Biotch, but eventually she agreed to it because she wants to live as long as possible and have the best care.
I do think some are already taking advantage, but nothing criminal. Mom would never go to therapy. Instead her housekeeper, gardener, hairdresser and accountant are her "yes" people, BFFs and "therapists" in her mind. I am always hearing about she paid the housekeeper to have tea with her and listen to her vent about us or she paid the accountant to listen to her discuss for the 176th time if she needs to re-do her will and cut me out. She's getting a bargain with the housekeeper, hairdresser and gardener listening to her vent, but with the amount her accountant charges, the accountant will probably buy herself a new car just from charging a fortune to kiss up to my mom rather than just referring her to a therapist.
I will try to find the NAMI link a friend sent, it looked real.
Your post is so funny, my brother says the same thing about the cleaning lady, gardner, hairdresser, etc being paid to socialize. And she DOES vent about us, one provider recently said that I'm so nice and helpful, nothing like what my mother described, lol. Since then they all swarm me with info on things that need to happen and since I can't execute any of it, I've been feeling overwhelmed.
I wish my brother would get help. He still says he would have had a happy childhood but for me but that could not have been true with such ill parents and twisted dynamics. He drinks, like them, and has poor relationships with his kids, it makes me sad. I try to keep in touch with them but having always heard me devalued, they are not all that interested. He's been married several times and that has been hard on them too.
When my mom was recently hospitalized and then discharged to rehab, she treated the staff like she treats me and my brother's wife. They sent the psychiatrist in regularly. Alas he thought medicating was too risky in light of everything with other heatlh conditions. If the anxiety was lower I think it might help the lashing out, I dunno. They all commented on how quickly her moods changed and would joke about her yelling at us on the phone and them being able to hear it from the nurses station. It was nice to have others see the reality. I brought them cookies pretty often, they were a little buffer and bit of normal and I appreciated that.
How did you find the social worker? That is what is needed, I think. That was a genius idea.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 20:25
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I was the scapegoat of my family. The golden child was(is) just as damaged as I was and am. My narc parent died young, so I never had to deal with what you are experiencing. I just wanted to point out that your sibling isn't less of a victim than you simply because he was treated "better". I hope you can break the cycle of dysfunction with your children and, possibly, your sibling. Neither of you asked to be mistreated.
Well said, pp.
OP here - my brother was so sweet and funny when he was little, then he was encouraged and rewarded for being cruel to me. It's all sad. I have been able to break the cycle with my own family, he has struggled.
The recent crisis is the first time we've been in contact in many years and we are both trying to be civil, I think. I'd like to stay in touch a bit but I don't know if that is reciprocated, time will tell. He and his current wife are both heavy drinkers and I hope someday they find greater peace.
All of this stuff is hard, wishing healing for all.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 20:02
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:The golden child in our family persuaded our widowed mother to change my parents' will and cut out the rest of the siblings "because we were set for life". I have an adult severely SN daughter who will never be independent. I would advise you to minimize your losses now and only do what you can without damaging your health and family finances. It is a very bitter pill to swallow after your parent passes.
OP here - PP, I'm so sorry for your experience. I am glad I found out about the trust years ago as my parents talked about splitting things equally but in reality put him as sole trustee without any usual checks and balances. There is not even a second trustee named. So I had time to come to terms with that, but for wishing for a bit more of a cushion, if possible, for my SN child. If my mom goes through all of her money that's fine, I just kind of was sad that all the "fair" rhetoric about anything left was just more about how they were perceived than what would happen to me and that they knew it would be a shock. My brother is a lot older than his current wife, not the mother of any of his kids, so it will all likely go to her, not them. but whatever. He is pretty much estranged from his kids, which is really sad too.
I realized that after getting sucked back in I now have a lot of neighbors, friends of my mom, service providers, etc, bombarding me with info about what ideally should be done. Like alerts on bank accounts as she gets more confused. I don't have the power to make it happen, am rebuffed when I make suggestions, then am blamed when there is fallout of things that have nothing to do with me. Typing that out I see that there is not really a way to make that work except to step back and to have buffers so I am not seen as the go to by all of these other concerned people. All of their well meant advice is just driving my anxiety without a productive outlet. I am a planner by nature so not doing the things that are typically recommended and waiting for the next shoe to fall is really hard on many levels. And pathetic as it sounds, some little part of me wanted to feel valued, if not for myself than for what I do, or things going smoothly. But anything that is done is perceived as an insult somehow, that she is old, incompetent, etc.
I think not only stepping back but conveying that to people is a next step. I can see how they all flocked to me with my brother's disengagement. He is entitled to his boundaries.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 18:50
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Wow, we should meet for coffee. I could have written half of this or more. Are there really NAMI groups for children of those with personality disorders? Anyone have a link.
I agree to an extent with the poster who said Golden Children are victims too, but some get help and want to break the cycle and some join in the abuse. My GC sibling joined in the abuse and will absolutely inherit far more doing far less.
Honestly, my life got so crazy I was going to lose it if I didn't set boundaries and do some rope dropping. I had to detach and distance. didn't go over well, but I had my own health crisis so it was easier to do as literal survival.
We do have a geriatric social worker involved though and mom pays for it. She hooted, hollered, tantrummed and told me I was a selfish Biotch, but eventually she agreed to it because she wants to live as long as possible and have the best care.
I do think some are already taking advantage, but nothing criminal. Mom would never go to therapy. Instead her housekeeper, gardener, hairdresser and accountant are her "yes" people, BFFs and "therapists" in her mind. I am always hearing about she paid the housekeeper to have tea with her and listen to her vent about us or she paid the accountant to listen to her discuss for the 176th time if she needs to re-do her will and cut me out. She's getting a bargain with the housekeeper, hairdresser and gardener listening to her vent, but with the amount her accountant charges, the accountant will probably buy herself a new car just from charging a fortune to kiss up to my mom rather than just referring her to a therapist.
I agree to an extent with the poster who said Golden Children are victims too, but some get help and want to break the cycle and some join in the abuse. My GC sibling joined in the abuse and will absolutely inherit far more doing far less.
Honestly, my life got so crazy I was going to lose it if I didn't set boundaries and do some rope dropping. I had to detach and distance. didn't go over well, but I had my own health crisis so it was easier to do as literal survival.
We do have a geriatric social worker involved though and mom pays for it. She hooted, hollered, tantrummed and told me I was a selfish Biotch, but eventually she agreed to it because she wants to live as long as possible and have the best care.
I do think some are already taking advantage, but nothing criminal. Mom would never go to therapy. Instead her housekeeper, gardener, hairdresser and accountant are her "yes" people, BFFs and "therapists" in her mind. I am always hearing about she paid the housekeeper to have tea with her and listen to her vent about us or she paid the accountant to listen to her discuss for the 176th time if she needs to re-do her will and cut me out. She's getting a bargain with the housekeeper, hairdresser and gardener listening to her vent, but with the amount her accountant charges, the accountant will probably buy herself a new car just from charging a fortune to kiss up to my mom rather than just referring her to a therapist.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 15:42
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Get some therapy, OP. You have serious issues.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 15:19
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Anonymous wrote:I was the scapegoat of my family. The golden child was(is) just as damaged as I was and am. My narc parent died young, so I never had to deal with what you are experiencing. I just wanted to point out that your sibling isn't less of a victim than you simply because he was treated "better". I hope you can break the cycle of dysfunction with your children and, possibly, your sibling. Neither of you asked to be mistreated.
Well said, pp.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 14:41
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
Drop the rope, OP. Just drop it.
You can only get sucked in if you let them suck you in. You already said the narc parent encourages conflict between you and GC, blah blah blah. Are you the person who is always writing about the narc parent?
Drop the rope. Let the GC worry about it, because it's their responsibility. It's not YOUR responsibility, so why are you allowing yourself to get sucked into this?
You can only get sucked in if you let them suck you in. You already said the narc parent encourages conflict between you and GC, blah blah blah. Are you the person who is always writing about the narc parent?
Drop the rope. Let the GC worry about it, because it's their responsibility. It's not YOUR responsibility, so why are you allowing yourself to get sucked into this?
Anonymous
04/22/2023 14:41
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
The golden child in our family persuaded our widowed mother to change my parents' will and cut out the rest of the siblings "because we were set for life". I have an adult severely SN daughter who will never be independent. I would advise you to minimize your losses now and only do what you can without damaging your health and family finances. It is a very bitter pill to swallow after your parent passes.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 14:27
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
I was the scapegoat of my family. The golden child was(is) just as damaged as I was and am. My narc parent died young, so I never had to deal with what you are experiencing. I just wanted to point out that your sibling isn't less of a victim than you simply because he was treated "better". I hope you can break the cycle of dysfunction with your children and, possibly, your sibling. Neither of you asked to be mistreated.
Anonymous
04/22/2023 14:12
Subject: Anyone else scapegoat child of narcissitic parent w/golden child uninterested in care?
The title says it all, if that is/was you, how did you make it work? Or do I make peace with that not being possible, and if so how?
The grappling for control by the narcissist is recently manifesting in things such as taking me off paperwork to communicate with HHA and the like. Golden child says she is spending too much of "his money" and that we should let her drive because "this is taking too long, I don't care if she kills herself and takes someone else out with her." GC is not a very nice person. GC is also POA and sole trustee of all assets of a non-probate trust. I have a SN child and could use 1/2 of any money that may be left after HHA, etc, but writing is on the wall there. Narcissists love to triangulate and keep the conflict going, why stop at death, right?
I got sucked back in during a recent extended crisis but the level of chaos, verbal abuse and trashing me to others is intense, and familiar. Ready to go no or very low contact but the feelings of being scapegoated and now, literally "erased" are painful and it is hard to turn off caring about the wellbeing of someone so vulnerable when someone with a history of cruelty is in charge. That is who she picked. I think it also triggers how vulnerable I felt as a child, ignored or blamed for everything, vulnerability for anyone is tough for me and I feel protective.
I get how unhealthy and co-dependent it is to want to do more to get recognition or peace and how that is not going to happen, but some oversight of a frail elderly person seems needed as a reality?
A friend suggested a NAMI family group for kids of those with personality disorders, if anyone has experience with that or other resources to help me cope, I'd be grateful. When she said that she was erasing me from the paperwork it triggered a lot of repressed feelings about being the scapegoat or erased/ignored/given the silent treatment for long periods even as a little kid. The silver lining of all this is maybe that it gives me a chance to do some processing, I don't know.
How to handle the practicalities? This is an elderly person who is mean to intimates but loves say hugs from strangers in the grocery store, there is genuine vulnerability to predatory people. No one is on her accounts to see an issue flagged, GC took himself off, said he wanted no part of the crazy train. When someone can't admit they are wrong, aging or may need help and who responds with rage to the very idea what do more responsible people do? And if the answer is nothing, now to make peace with any fallout?
The grappling for control by the narcissist is recently manifesting in things such as taking me off paperwork to communicate with HHA and the like. Golden child says she is spending too much of "his money" and that we should let her drive because "this is taking too long, I don't care if she kills herself and takes someone else out with her." GC is not a very nice person. GC is also POA and sole trustee of all assets of a non-probate trust. I have a SN child and could use 1/2 of any money that may be left after HHA, etc, but writing is on the wall there. Narcissists love to triangulate and keep the conflict going, why stop at death, right?
I got sucked back in during a recent extended crisis but the level of chaos, verbal abuse and trashing me to others is intense, and familiar. Ready to go no or very low contact but the feelings of being scapegoated and now, literally "erased" are painful and it is hard to turn off caring about the wellbeing of someone so vulnerable when someone with a history of cruelty is in charge. That is who she picked. I think it also triggers how vulnerable I felt as a child, ignored or blamed for everything, vulnerability for anyone is tough for me and I feel protective.
I get how unhealthy and co-dependent it is to want to do more to get recognition or peace and how that is not going to happen, but some oversight of a frail elderly person seems needed as a reality?
A friend suggested a NAMI family group for kids of those with personality disorders, if anyone has experience with that or other resources to help me cope, I'd be grateful. When she said that she was erasing me from the paperwork it triggered a lot of repressed feelings about being the scapegoat or erased/ignored/given the silent treatment for long periods even as a little kid. The silver lining of all this is maybe that it gives me a chance to do some processing, I don't know.
How to handle the practicalities? This is an elderly person who is mean to intimates but loves say hugs from strangers in the grocery store, there is genuine vulnerability to predatory people. No one is on her accounts to see an issue flagged, GC took himself off, said he wanted no part of the crazy train. When someone can't admit they are wrong, aging or may need help and who responds with rage to the very idea what do more responsible people do? And if the answer is nothing, now to make peace with any fallout?