My dad never moved out from my mother though they had a place nearby, she was intolerable, we the kids were grown etc.
it took my mother’s passing for us to be able to get my dad a more suitable life.
I mean, it won’t hurt to try, but your mom may drag it out etc.
maybe I would start with having her visit you “because you need help with the kids” or under some other pretense that won’t hurt dad’s feelings. See how she fares alone.

Anonymous wrote:I have another perspective based on my experience. My mom slipped into depression and decline as dad's health issues increased and I went into full rescue mode. I helped her with dad, found a program where he got out of the house and she got a break, helped her get aides, took her out, did everything to cheer her up. She remained miserable. She blamed dad until he became to ill to blame so she blamed me! Meds helped when she would take them, but she kept going off. When dad died, I became the object of her complaining and misery full time and she started having outbursts. Every time she goes back on meds she is better, but now even on meds her obsession has shifted from hating and resenting dad to hating and resenting me.

So, my advice is this-get an aging care expert involved to asess. Let her doctor know she is still miserable despite meds mif she won't advocate for herself. Don't enable her. Help her find outlets, but if she refuses, don't try to fill in the gaping hole in her life by taking her out more. She needs outlets beyond you. Love can turn to hate in shocking way when there is mental illness and you need to protect yourself. Detach with love. Be there for her, but do not be her life. Take care of yourself. Let the experts guide you-aging care expert, doctors, etc. Learn to accept she may remain miserable. Don't let that make you miserable.

I forgot one important part...she may be addicted to the dysfunction. Mom complained incessantly about dad and fought with him often, yet when he died she feel apart. She talked about him all the time and visited his grace daily and still does. She kept trying to pick fights with others and re-create their dysfunction. She thinks life would be much better if he were alive. Don't assume if you get mom away from dad she will finally be happy. She may become more miserable and all that effort may be for nothing.

I would encourage her to move to independent living with continuing care. Three of our five parents/step-parents moved into independent living in their mid-70s, and all three are very happy with the decision.

I have another perspective based on my experience. My mom slipped into depression and decline as dad's health issues increased and I went into full rescue mode. I helped her with dad, found a program where he got out of the house and she got a break, helped her get aides, took her out, did everything to cheer her up. She remained miserable. She blamed dad until he became to ill to blame so she blamed me! Meds helped when she would take them, but she kept going off. When dad died, I became the object of her complaining and misery full time and she started having outbursts. Every time she goes back on meds she is better, but now even on meds her obsession has shifted from hating and resenting dad to hating and resenting me.

So, my advice is this-get an aging care expert involved to asess. Let her doctor know she is still miserable despite meds mif she won't advocate for herself. Don't enable her. Help her find outlets, but if she refuses, don't try to fill in the gaping hole in her life by taking her out more. She needs outlets beyond you. Love can turn to hate in shocking way when there is mental illness and you need to protect yourself. Detach with love. Be there for her, but do not be her life. Take care of yourself. Let the experts guide you-aging care expert, doctors, etc. Learn to accept she may remain miserable. Don't let that make you miserable.

Despite your mother’s clear unhappiness, I would bet she will be resistant to any suggestion that she move out and live separately at this point. Your description of your parents is eerily similar to mine, except my father was a dry drunk for decades but the toxic is still toxic in the absence of alcohol. As they aged and his temper became more volatile I lived in greater fear that he would someday lose it and kill my mother with one of his collection of guns - I feared that as a kid, too, but even more with age. My mother would not leave despite her clear unhappiness because she was of a generation that was far too preoccupied with what other people might think, even into older age. My mother instead died 20 years before her genetic heritage would suggest (her mother and grandmother lived into late 90s), I am certain due to the toxic stress of a dysfunctional marriage that takes a real toll on the body.

This thread is an interesting accompaniment to the one about how marriage benefits women. As I said there, I have absolute certainty that many long lived marriages of 40+ years are evidence only of the capacity some women have to endure endless emotional suffering.

Anonymous wrote:My mom's continuing care community has residents who are married but the spouse didn't move in. The party line is that the absent spouse "isn't ready to move" yet, but I suspect that what's happening -- often if not always -- is that they're not ready to divorce but happier apart.

They may live together for a week so so during family holidays, but then it's back to their separate corners.

Good to know! Also interesting comment from earlier PP that this is happening more than commonly acknowledged.

Anonymous wrote:OP, mention that, "Dad has always had the more assertive / dominating presence, and Mom has a definite doormat/ martyr thing." My parents are the same way. My mom barely has access to any money as a result, so there's no way she could just live separately from him. If she wanted to live on her own, she'd have to divorce him. My dad would hate both options and either would be hard for her to execute.

OP here. This is definitely a concern of mine. I'm wondering if my sister and I need to spend some time getting familiar with their complete financial portfolio before any movement along these lines. Maybe in the spirit of "being familiar with stuff in case you get hit by a bus."

I do worry that my Dad could flip out in his "wounded state" and--insisting that this is "wrong" he would try to hide/ hold on to money, rather than an equitable split of finances. Again, it's a challenge because he's just living his "best life" in a alcohol-hazed golf world and would probably resent the change.

My mom's continuing care community has residents who are married but the spouse didn't move in. The party line is that the absent spouse "isn't ready to move" yet, but I suspect that what's happening -- often if not always -- is that they're not ready to divorce but happier apart.

They may live together for a week so so during family holidays, but then it's back to their separate corners.

OP, mention that, "Dad has always had the more assertive / dominating presence, and Mom has a definite doormat/ martyr thing." My parents are the same way. My mom barely has access to any money as a result, so there's no way she could just live separately from him. If she wanted to live on her own, she'd have to divorce him. My dad would hate both options and either would be hard for her to execute.

I've seen this happening with friends' parents. Might be more common than you think. Divorce is a stigma and they don't want that, but lifestyle-wise, living separately is a good solution.

Thank you so much for folks who have responded!
Filling in some more details...
They are comfortable financially, so this would not be coming our of my expenses. There house is paid off, Dad is retired as a full colonel and worked some additional years as government contractor).
I understand what the PP is saying regarding the possible financial advantages of divorce, but I have a feeling that is going to be a non-starter with them. It's not logical, since as I said they are no longer behaving as a married couple in any sense, but I think they just wouldn't want to do that. Perhaps a separation would be advisable/ necessary. (We live in Virginia).

Who is going to pay for her separate dwelling? If they have the means I would have no problem. I just wouldn’t want to fund her that’s all

I think if they are going to live apart anyway it may be wise to divorce from a financial perspective. My inlaws divorced and when my FIL, who is terrible with money and it get worse without her, needed government assistance, he qualified. When he's needed in home care from time to time after an injury or illness, he's qualified for that, too. Miraculous, my MIL, who can't stand the guy, still drops in on him and helps him. She says she does it out of love for her kids, who she knows are busy.

I haven't experienced this firsthand but my friend has. Her parents lived apart without divorcing starting in their early 80s due to incompatibility (both were recovering alcoholics and one had stopped drinking and the other refused to). They did not divorce. The mother continued living in the family home and the father moved into his own place. At the end of their lives, each had to be taken care of by their adult children and each died in their children's homes.

I think it's a reasonable thing for your mother to do, but don't be surprised if she doesn't want to live in a continuing care community. Most people in those communities are well into their 80s. And be prepared to help take care of them separately as they age since one won't be able to help take care of the other.

Hi, DCUM.
Could use some advice / perspective on my situation.
Background...
Parents are in their upper 70s. They haven't had a super-loving relationship for quite some time, more staying together due to inertia and convenience. For their retirement, Dad basically got exactly what he wanted: they live in a big house in the exburbs on a golf course. He gets to play golf all the time and has made social connections that way. Mom has never liked golf, is not near any other interests or activities, and has zero social outlets.

As they age, their personalities and traits are getting more and more pronounced. Dad is heading is a much more extreme ideology in terms of politics, people, lifestyle, etc, and Mom is moving in the opposite direction. Dad has always had the more assertive / dominating presence, and Mom has a definite doormat/ martyr thing. At this point they literally have zero common interests at all. Mom does not feel she can have any conversation with Dad, because his viewpoints are so strident, that he's not willing to "agree to disagree". So, she is completely, utterly isolated. She is also not as physically healthy as Dad, which furthers her isolation, and leave her stuck in a house with a person she can't interact with.

I visit as much as I can and take Mom out to do stuff, but ultimately, she is miserable. Dad is by nature self-centered, so he is partially oblivious and partially doesn't care, because as far as he's concerned, everything is great. Dad is also a high-functioning alcoholic. He never drives while intoxicated--he doesn't have to, since everything he wants is right there, so I don't have that concern, but basically he gets home late morning from golf, and proceeds to drink vodka non-stop while watching golf on tv or YouTube videos.

My mom is displaying deeper and deeper levels of clinical depression (yes, she is taking medication) and is sounding increasingly desperate when we are able to talk one-on-one. I honestly think at this point that the best thing would be for her to get a studio apartment in a continuing care community. She would be away from toxic Dad, could begin to have her own life, interests, meet people. She is perfectly okay for independent living now, but she is more frail and will ultimately need more care, so getting her set up now in continuing care would make those inevitable transitions easier. I figure they don't have to get a divorce (I think they would both balk at that) but I don't see any reason for them to continue to live together, and lots of advantages to setting each of them up with the situation that suits them.

Thoughts?