Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused. Do we know the real story yet? I like to respect people’s chosen pronouns no matter who they are. Apparently, I got incorrect information yesterday.

As far as I am aware, based on authoritative sources, the shooter was assigned female at birth but identified as male as the time of the shooting. The transition may have been very recent and there is no information of which I am aware concerning any gender affirming care or any other details about the transition.

My only interest in this is to get the details correct. I don't feel that I am in a position to comment on its importance overall.

While I believe your understanding is correct, I also am confused about this. All the media sources I have seen refer to the shooter as “she/her” and female. If she identified as male, shouldn’t they use “him/he”? I’m not very knowledgeable about these issues, so is there some difference between MtF vs FTM transgenderism? Is there a reason that all media sources are disregarding the shooter’s chosen gender and referring to them as female?

I think the confusion comes from the Nashville police chief who referred to the shooter with female pronouns while also saying that the shooter identified as transgender. I think that most interpreted this to mean that the shooter was assigned male at birth when the opposite appears to be true. If the media is still using she/her, I have no idea why.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused. Do we know the real story yet? I like to respect people’s chosen pronouns no matter who they are. Apparently, I got incorrect information yesterday.

As far as I am aware, based on authoritative sources, the shooter was assigned female at birth but identified as male as the time of the shooting. The transition may have been very recent and there is no information of which I am aware concerning any gender affirming care or any other details about the transition.

My only interest in this is to get the details correct. I don't feel that I am in a position to comment on its importance overall.

While I believe your understanding is correct, I also am confused about this. All the media sources I have seen refer to the shooter as “she/her” and female. If she identified as male, shouldn’t they use “him/he”? I’m not very knowledgeable about these issues, so is there some difference between MtF vs FTM transgenderism? Is there a reason that all media sources are disregarding the shooter’s chosen gender and referring to them as female?

Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused. Do we know the real story yet? I like to respect people’s chosen pronouns no matter who they are. Apparently, I got incorrect information yesterday.

As far as I am aware, based on authoritative sources, the shooter was assigned female at birth but identified as male as the time of the shooting. The transition may have been very recent and there is no information of which I am aware concerning any gender affirming care or any other details about the transition.

My only interest in this is to get the details correct. I don't feel that I am in a position to comment on its importance overall.

The fact that the shooter was transgender is a footnote in this, unless it comes out that he was taking revenge on public policy or something. This sounds a lot more personal than that in terms of grievance or grudge.

People who want to make this about transgenderism are really awful people who are being disrespectful to those who died, including three 9-year-old children.

Anonymous wrote:Why is the shooting thread hidden in Political section? It's main news of the day and yet you are removing threads about it from Off topic.

It isn't "hidden." The OP stated s/he wanted a political solution to gun violence, which is why s/he chose the forum. Which makes sense.

Why do you think it was "hidden?" That ascribes nefarious intent to the moderator. Why?

I’m so confused. Do we know the real story yet? I like to respect people’s chosen pronouns no matter who they are. Apparently, I got incorrect information yesterday.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has now been determined by all news sources that the shooter was a biological woman, Audrey Hale. Even her mother was quoted as saying, "I think I lost my daughter today." Why on earth can't we call this murderer "SHE"? I'm all for respecting people's pronouns, etc. - but frankly, that respect does not include murderers. The posters claiming she is being "deadnamed" are ridiculous. Even her mother acknowledges that her daughter was responsible for this horrific crime.

Obviously this person can't be offended in any way. Insults don't carry much weight with the dead. However, the best information we have — coming from the police — is that the individual identified as male. While your refusal to recognize that has no impact on the shooter, it does reflect your attitude towards the trans community. Frankly, I have no tolerance for that attitude. You are not offending a dead person who can't be offended, but you are offending live people.

My "attitude towards the trans community"? I just stated that I respect people's pronouns. I do not respect murderers, however. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the trans community.

So, you are demonstrating your respect for people's pronouns by refusing to respect pronouns?

Again, the shooter is dead. You can neither respect or disrespect him. Your action do, however, affect the living.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has now been determined by all news sources that the shooter was a biological woman, Audrey Hale. Even her mother was quoted as saying, "I think I lost my daughter today." Why on earth can't we call this murderer "SHE"? I'm all for respecting people's pronouns, etc. - but frankly, that respect does not include murderers. The posters claiming she is being "deadnamed" are ridiculous. Even her mother acknowledges that her daughter was responsible for this horrific crime.

Obviously this person can't be offended in any way. Insults don't carry much weight with the dead. However, the best information we have — coming from the police — is that the individual identified as male. While your refusal to recognize that has no impact on the shooter, it does reflect your attitude towards the trans community. Frankly, I have no tolerance for that attitude. You are not offending a dead person who can't be offended, but you are offending live people.

My "attitude towards the trans community"? I just stated that I respect people's pronouns. I do not respect murderers, however. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the trans community.

Anonymous wrote:It has now been determined by all news sources that the shooter was a biological woman, Audrey Hale. Even her mother was quoted as saying, "I think I lost my daughter today." Why on earth can't we call this murderer "SHE"? I'm all for respecting people's pronouns, etc. - but frankly, that respect does not include murderers. The posters claiming she is being "deadnamed" are ridiculous. Even her mother acknowledges that her daughter was responsible for this horrific crime.

Obviously this person can't be offended in any way. Insults don't carry much weight with the dead. However, the best information we have — coming from the police — is that the individual identified as male. While your refusal to recognize that has no impact on the shooter, it does reflect your attitude towards the trans community. Frankly, I have no tolerance for that attitude. You are not offending a dead person who can't be offended, but you are offending live people.

It has now been determined by all news sources that the shooter was a biological woman, Audrey Hale. Even her mother was quoted as saying, "I think I lost my daughter today." Why on earth can't we call this murderer "SHE"? I'm all for respecting people's pronouns, etc. - but frankly, that respect does not include murderers. The posters claiming she is being "deadnamed" are ridiculous. Even her mother acknowledges that her daughter was responsible for this horrific crime.

Anonymous wrote:Why is the shooting thread hidden in Political section? It's main news of the day and yet you are removing threads about it from Off topic.

The thread is crazy and almost impossible to moderate. I can't handle more than one of them. It is in the political section because that is where the original poster posted it. I don't see a reason to move it because shootings are very political (and this probably more so now).

Why is the shooting thread hidden in Political section? It's main news of the day and yet you are removing threads about it from Off topic.

jsteele wrote:If your posts contained links to authoritative news sources, I missed them. I've been removing all posts that I notice that are ahead of responsible news sources. In that thread, I've removed posts claiming the shooter was a biological woman who uses he/him pronouns and a biological male who is a transgender woman. Both can't be true.

Posters just need to slow down. There are no prizes for being the first DCUM poster to post something. Let's get things right instead of fast.

Fair enough, thanks Jeff.

I did not post a link, but here is the one I saw for NBC News (third paragraph):

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nashville-christian-school-shooter-appears-former-student-police-chief-rcna76876

If your posts contained links to authoritative news sources, I missed them. I've been removing all posts that I notice that are ahead of responsible news sources. In that thread, I've removed posts claiming the shooter was a biological woman who uses he/him pronouns and a biological male who is a transgender woman. Both can't be true.

Posters just need to slow down. There are no prizes for being the first DCUM poster to post something. Let's get things right instead of fast.

Hi Jeff, in the ongoing political thread on the Nashville shooting, I noted that reliable national news outlets are reporting the shooter was a trans woman who was born male, but my comment was deleted. Any reason why? I just noted it as a pure fact (as news outlets are reporting), not to pass judgment.

In any event, thanks for monitoring the thread closely. I reported several posts expressing joy this had happened in a Christian environment, and appreciate that you quickly deleted them.