Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first page says it takes way more time for a teacher to implement and that it’s hard to raise an overall grade during the year. There you’ve got your answer that it’s a bad way of grading.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how averages work when you add more numbers to the set that is being averaged??? The fewer numbers (graded work) in the set (ie. earlier in the school year when there have only been 5 graded assignment), the more impact a new number has when added to the set. As the year progresses, you now have 35 numbers in the set that gets averaged.... so each number has less impact on the average, and it is harder to change the average as new numbers (i.e. graded work) are added.

That's not a flaw of skills-based grading. That's just a mathematical fact of averages over the course of a year. As you add more grades, it takes a lot more deviation from the mean to actually pull the mean in one direction or the other. It may be harder to INCREASE your overall grade in April, but it's also harder to DECREASE your overall grade in April -- because all of your grades up to that point have lead to the grade that you have (i.e. the average of all your work so far).

If you liked having quarter grades where each quarter was a fresh start -- you are essentially saying that you liked being mislead to believe that you were doing better at the beginning of each quarter, without knowing how that would impact your final grade. You essentially prefer to be ignorant of where you truly stand, and you liked the mirage. The rolling grade book gives you the most up-to-date information on what your kid's grade is at any point in the year. Some people like those fun-house-mirrors what make you look skinnier than you are --- that's kind of what quarter grading is vs. the reality of rolling grade book. Which-- by the way -- is NOT the same as skills based grading. Those are two different issues.

If you are going to argue against something -- try to make an argument that is legitimate.

I don't see it that way. The rolling gradebook is another issue we aren't discussing so it doesn't contribute to this discussion. This discussion is on the elimination of smaller assignments and only focusing on several heavily weighted grades. The practice assignments used to be about 20% of the grade and they worked to help the child do better on the final assessment. So they were both a grade* 20% of the final grade averaged or a grade contributing to homework and a means to achieve a higher score on the final assessments. In this way perhaps they contributed to the 20% of the grade and also let's say 50% of the final assessment grade because if you do this work and do it well, you likely will do well on the final assessment.

In the previous grading example, Child A gets a B (3.0) on the 20% of these assignments an A- on the final (3.6) worth 80% of the grade. The started out with some D's on the practice, maybe an F for missing an assignment, but then learned what the teacher wanted and learned the skill better and so on the final assessment were able to do better than if they didn't do the practice work. Average for this child is (3.6*0.8)+(2.9*0.2)=3.46 or an A-.

Now take the scenario where these other assignments don't count. Any student such as Child B that does not want to put in the work to be sure they get an A or will not assess their own work correctly and will either not do the work or not do it well and with less feedback will not be as prepared for the final assessment. They will be told that this other work doesn't matter that much and won't get feedback and that will decrease their interest in doing the work. Then instead of that A- they might have gotten with all the other assignments completed beforehand, they will likely get a B on the final assessment since its the first time they are actually being graded on these skills.

But there is nothing preventing the child from doing practice just because it isn't graded. Isn't that a good skill to learn? Practice for the sake of getting better at something vs. doing a worksheet for points (motivating them to copy/cheat/rush/turn in junk just to check the box?) Their grade is a far more accurate reflection of what they are capable of doing when you only grade assessments.

I do think there is an immaturity piece that lower classman will struggle to grasp the importance of doing the practice, but if you're going to grade it it should be no more than 5 or 10% of the grade. 20% is insanity, especially when you get 50% for writing your name on the paper. Then a kid who gets 50% on all assessments but 100% for their "effort" in doing the classwork will pass the class despite not being able to demonstrate any knowledge.

The other thing I've seen happen is that unless it's a test in school the kids forget which grades count and which ones don't and then it turns out there is some graded at home assignment that counts for a skill and the kid doesn't do it and now has a zero. It becomes another added layer of checking which grades count and which ones don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first page says it takes way more time for a teacher to implement and that it’s hard to raise an overall grade during the year. There you’ve got your answer that it’s a bad way of grading.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how averages work when you add more numbers to the set that is being averaged??? The fewer numbers (graded work) in the set (ie. earlier in the school year when there have only been 5 graded assignment), the more impact a new number has when added to the set. As the year progresses, you now have 35 numbers in the set that gets averaged.... so each number has less impact on the average, and it is harder to change the average as new numbers (i.e. graded work) are added.

That's not a flaw of skills-based grading. That's just a mathematical fact of averages over the course of a year. As you add more grades, it takes a lot more deviation from the mean to actually pull the mean in one direction or the other. It may be harder to INCREASE your overall grade in April, but it's also harder to DECREASE your overall grade in April -- because all of your grades up to that point have lead to the grade that you have (i.e. the average of all your work so far).

If you liked having quarter grades where each quarter was a fresh start -- you are essentially saying that you liked being mislead to believe that you were doing better at the beginning of each quarter, without knowing how that would impact your final grade. You essentially prefer to be ignorant of where you truly stand, and you liked the mirage. The rolling grade book gives you the most up-to-date information on what your kid's grade is at any point in the year. Some people like those fun-house-mirrors what make you look skinnier than you are --- that's kind of what quarter grading is vs. the reality of rolling grade book. Which-- by the way -- is NOT the same as skills based grading. Those are two different issues.

If you are going to argue against something -- try to make an argument that is legitimate.

I don't see it that way. The rolling gradebook is another issue we aren't discussing so it doesn't contribute to this discussion. This discussion is on the elimination of smaller assignments and only focusing on several heavily weighted grades. The practice assignments used to be about 20% of the grade and they worked to help the child do better on the final assessment. So they were both a grade* 20% of the final grade averaged or a grade contributing to homework and a means to achieve a higher score on the final assessments. In this way perhaps they contributed to the 20% of the grade and also let's say 50% of the final assessment grade because if you do this work and do it well, you likely will do well on the final assessment.

In the previous grading example, Child A gets a B (3.0) on the 20% of these assignments an A- on the final (3.6) worth 80% of the grade. The started out with some D's on the practice, maybe an F for missing an assignment, but then learned what the teacher wanted and learned the skill better and so on the final assessment were able to do better than if they didn't do the practice work. Average for this child is (3.6*0.8)+(2.9*0.2)=3.46 or an A-.

Now take the scenario where these other assignments don't count. Any student such as Child B that does not want to put in the work to be sure they get an A or will not assess their own work correctly and will either not do the work or not do it well and with less feedback will not be as prepared for the final assessment. They will be told that this other work doesn't matter that much and won't get feedback and that will decrease their interest in doing the work. Then instead of that A- they might have gotten with all the other assignments completed beforehand, they will likely get a B on the final assessment since its the first time they are actually being graded on these skills.

This has been implemented at Edison HS. Parents learned about it at Back-to-School Night. It has been a disaster. The school did not get buy-in from the faculty. Teachers were not adequately trained on the new system. We were told in a heated meeting in September that grades will be the same. Anecdotal evidence indicates that grades were lower. Although it has been promised, we still do not have the grade comparisons after the end of the 1st quarter or 1st semester.

Another thing that we learned during this process was that Supt. Braband ordered schools to not proceed with any grade system changes until Dr. Reid wad aboard and had a chance to review. Teachers at Edison were informed the next day via email that SBG would be implemented for the 22-23 year. We have asked for a comparison of grades under the new system vs the old system. We have yet to be provided that information. We are not fully aware of the impact of first semester grades on college acceptances.

Truthfully I'm not convinced SBG is a bad thing, but the haphazard implementation at Edison with zero accountability by the Administration, who let the students bear the brunt of hasty unvetted decision-making, has been a disaster. Our students are compared to other FCPS students who operate under an entirely different grading system. Make it make sense.

Anonymous wrote:The first page says it takes way more time for a teacher to implement and that it’s hard to raise an overall grade during the year. There you’ve got your answer that it’s a bad way of grading.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how averages work when you add more numbers to the set that is being averaged??? The fewer numbers (graded work) in the set (ie. earlier in the school year when there have only been 5 graded assignment), the more impact a new number has when added to the set. As the year progresses, you now have 35 numbers in the set that gets averaged.... so each number has less impact on the average, and it is harder to change the average as new numbers (i.e. graded work) are added.

That's not a flaw of skills-based grading. That's just a mathematical fact of averages over the course of a year. As you add more grades, it takes a lot more deviation from the mean to actually pull the mean in one direction or the other. It may be harder to INCREASE your overall grade in April, but it's also harder to DECREASE your overall grade in April -- because all of your grades up to that point have lead to the grade that you have (i.e. the average of all your work so far).

If you liked having quarter grades where each quarter was a fresh start -- you are essentially saying that you liked being mislead to believe that you were doing better at the beginning of each quarter, without knowing how that would impact your final grade. You essentially prefer to be ignorant of where you truly stand, and you liked the mirage. The rolling grade book gives you the most up-to-date information on what your kid's grade is at any point in the year. Some people like those fun-house-mirrors what make you look skinnier than you are --- that's kind of what quarter grading is vs. the reality of rolling grade book. Which-- by the way -- is NOT the same as skills based grading. Those are two different issues.

If you are going to argue against something -- try to make an argument that is legitimate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Madison pyramid, but still have kids in grade school. What is the new grading policy? Explain it to me like I’m five.

This is from a kid at Madison taken from that thread:

I am a high schooler that goes to a school with the skills based graded system. I will use my AP Biology class as an example. The course is broken down into around 5-6 skills (using models, collecting data accurately, lab skills, data analysis, concept analysis, concept readiness). Each unit of biology content tests 2-3 of these skills. For an example in our Cell Structure and Function unit, we were tested on lab skills, data analysis, and concept analysis. Before the assessment (aka test), we complete practices (quizzes) in the skills that we will be tested on. Ultimately, these practices won't count in the long run; the assessment becomes 100% of our grade. In addition, only the 3 most recent grades for a skill counts. So lets say for Unit 1 I got an A in lab skills. Then for Unit 2 I also got an A. Unit 3 I got a B. And Unit 4 I earned a B. The overall grade for that skill would be the average of the A, B, B. The final grade is determined by averaging all the skill grades together.
I would like to point out that the skill based grading system is different almost each class. For my math and science grades, we take the top 3 skills. For English, we average all the assessments together. I know one class where as long as you show an upward trend in a skill grade, then at the end of the year it can be replaced.

It's like college where only final assessments are graded. Many kids are not equipped to do the work to get good grades this way. Even at college, people flunk out because of this. Meanwhile we are talking about how our kids are super stressed out. You think removing grades to just one per skill is going to make them less stressed?

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Madison pyramid, but still have kids in grade school. What is the new grading policy? Explain it to me like I’m five.

This is from a kid at Madison taken from that thread:

I am a high schooler that goes to a school with the skills based graded system. I will use my AP Biology class as an example. The course is broken down into around 5-6 skills (using models, collecting data accurately, lab skills, data analysis, concept analysis, concept readiness). Each unit of biology content tests 2-3 of these skills. For an example in our Cell Structure and Function unit, we were tested on lab skills, data analysis, and concept analysis. Before the assessment (aka test), we complete practices (quizzes) in the skills that we will be tested on. Ultimately, these practices won't count in the long run; the assessment becomes 100% of our grade. In addition, only the 3 most recent grades for a skill counts. So lets say for Unit 1 I got an A in lab skills. Then for Unit 2 I also got an A. Unit 3 I got a B. And Unit 4 I earned a B. The overall grade for that skill would be the average of the A, B, B. The final grade is determined by averaging all the skill grades together.
I would like to point out that the skill based grading system is different almost each class. For my math and science grades, we take the top 3 skills. For English, we average all the assessments together. I know one class where as long as you show an upward trend in a skill grade, then at the end of the year it can be replaced.

Ask your kid what class was like back when classwork counted.

Their grades were full of copied fluff, partner work, photo-math'd assignments, plagiarized papers. Busy work that demonstrated no understanding.

I think the point of skills-based grading is ultimately to inflate the grades at the end of the year

The opposite, actually. It's to take out the fluffy stuff and only grade demonstration of knowledge/skills.

I'm extremely against it because of the work it requires of teachers, but it is a more accurate grade for the student IF implemented correctly (no idea how Madison is doing it)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Madison pyramid, but still have kids in grade school. What is the new grading policy? Explain it to me like I’m five.

There was another thread about this, probably started by the same Madison parent: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1104909.page

Read it like you're 10.

🤣 Thanks

The first page says it takes way more time for a teacher to implement and that it’s hard to raise an overall grade during the year. There you’ve got your answer that it’s a bad way of grading.

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Madison pyramid, but still have kids in grade school. What is the new grading policy? Explain it to me like I’m five.

There was another thread about this, probably started by the same Madison parent: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1104909.page

Read it like you're 10.

I live in the Madison pyramid, but still have kids in grade school. What is the new grading policy? Explain it to me like I’m five.

It's FCPS. They find a way to screw up even the good schools.

My biggest issue is that some assignments are not for grading and others aren't and often it's too difficult to tell which ones are for grading and often the kids don't do the not for grading work and then bomb the for grading ones. They should be able to allow for some retakes a year to replace a couple of low grades as well as make certain assignments count but to a lesser degree. This was how it was when my child started this school. Other than the not for grading assignments, I don't understand skills-based grading and why it would be better or worse.

Parents of students at Madison H.S., please fill out this survey. The administration at Madison is implementing skills-based grading, and it's a disaster. Everything was fine before; there is no need for this. Ask your kid what class was like back when classwork counted. Ask your kid if they think their grade gives them meaningful feedback to how they are doing in class. Then ask their teachers what they think about this or ask your kids what their teachers have said about skills-based grading during class.

I think the point of skills-based grading is ultimately to inflate the grades at the end of the year and show the administration's much touted "upward trend" for all students. It makes the administration look like it is achieving equity for all students, but equity is not achieved by inflating grades and saying things like "content doesn't matter; it's about what you know." In reality, skills-based grading is confusing and incentivizes students to do the least amount of work possible. The only thing that matters are the assessments, test anxiety increases, then the grades that are dropped lead to frustration and depression.

I was really happy at Madison before this happened and it pains me to see the quality of my children's education eroded by what appears to be a self-serving agenda by the administration. The decision to implement skills-based grading was made by Madison's administration, not FCPS or VDOE. Calvert says this year was a disaster, everything will be better next year, however, the truth is this system is not going to work for all subjects and there will be ongoing experimentation to try to make it work.

This survey, as well as one called "High School Assessment and Grading Survey" is an opportunity to give feedback - Reid could shut all this down by implementing the same grading policy for all schools.

The Madison principal survey is due on 3/24.