Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:52
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:Things that are important about "the school" that have nothing to do with the students (or their parents, or their race, or their income):
- facilities: unless you have sent your kid to a school with overflow trailers or unreliable AC/heating or crappy playground equipment/library/etc., you don't really know how important the literal physical structure of the school is to quality of life in the school.
- staff/leadership: I have seen it go both ways in different school communities. Sometimes, there is a very strong longterm leader of a school who builds a very strong staff and school culture. Other times, there is a stable longterm cohort of teachers that results in a stable culture over a period of years even if leadership at a school changes. Even short term staff coming in with good energy can change the quality of the school.
Parent involvement, to me, is tied to the leadership and staff of the school. Strong educational leaders know how to work with parents and communities to get investment and participation. That doesn't require money. It just requires understanding the community and being willing to meet them where they are.
Students are important, but there is so much happening on the adult levels at school that can make or break the student experience. It's pretty naive to ignore that.[/quote]
Can you show examples of 60 or 70% plus FARMs school districts performing on par with rich districts? You probably can't because students are by far the most important factor
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:52
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not all the way. Look at the stats of different schools with high FARMS rates. There is a disparity that can’t be explained by the SES of the families. A principal can really make or break a school.
The data I've seen says it can.
What I’m saying is that not all high FARMS/title 1 schools perform equally. When there is a big disparity in schools with the same demographics, obviously something else besides demographics is at play.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:49
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:Not all the way. Look at the stats of different schools with high FARMS rates. There is a disparity that can’t be explained by the SES of the families. A principal can really make or break a school.
The data I've seen says it can.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:45
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Things that are important about "the school" that have nothing to do with the students (or their parents, or their race, or their income):
- facilities: unless you have sent your kid to a school with overflow trailers or unreliable AC/heating or crappy playground equipment/library/etc., you don't really know how important the literal physical structure of the school is to quality of life in the school.
- staff/leadership: I have seen it go both ways in different school communities. Sometimes, there is a very strong longterm leader of a school who builds a very strong staff and school culture. Other times, there is a stable longterm cohort of teachers that results in a stable culture over a period of years even if leadership at a school changes. Even short term staff coming in with good energy can change the quality of the school.
Parent involvement, to me, is tied to the leadership and staff of the school. Strong educational leaders know how to work with parents and communities to get investment and participation. That doesn't require money. It just requires understanding the community and being willing to meet them where they are.
Students are important, but there is so much happening on the adult levels at school that can make or break the student experience. It's pretty naive to ignore that.
- facilities: unless you have sent your kid to a school with overflow trailers or unreliable AC/heating or crappy playground equipment/library/etc., you don't really know how important the literal physical structure of the school is to quality of life in the school.
- staff/leadership: I have seen it go both ways in different school communities. Sometimes, there is a very strong longterm leader of a school who builds a very strong staff and school culture. Other times, there is a stable longterm cohort of teachers that results in a stable culture over a period of years even if leadership at a school changes. Even short term staff coming in with good energy can change the quality of the school.
Parent involvement, to me, is tied to the leadership and staff of the school. Strong educational leaders know how to work with parents and communities to get investment and participation. That doesn't require money. It just requires understanding the community and being willing to meet them where they are.
Students are important, but there is so much happening on the adult levels at school that can make or break the student experience. It's pretty naive to ignore that.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:39
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's only PART of the reason, OP. The other parts are:
1. Funding, management and educational direction of the school system.
2. In wealthy neighborhoods, parental pressure acting alongside teachers and staff looking to be hired in those schools, that work towards keeping the best teachers at those locations.
There are some incredibly well-funded failing schools in this country.
I believe you. All the parts need to work together. Perhaps they're not managed well.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:38
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's only PART of the reason, OP. The other parts are:
1. Funding, management and educational direction of the school system.
2. In wealthy neighborhoods, parental pressure acting alongside teachers and staff looking to be hired in those schools, that work towards keeping the best teachers at those locations.
There are some incredibly well-funded failing schools in this country.
Due to teacher labor costs. The worst school districts are h*ll to teach in, so you need to pay a premium to attract teachers.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:37
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's only PART of the reason, OP. The other parts are:
1. Funding, management and educational direction of the school system.
2. In wealthy neighborhoods, parental pressure acting alongside teachers and staff looking to be hired in those schools, that work towards keeping the best teachers at those locations.
There are some incredibly well-funded failing schools in this country.
Not when you compare them to schools with exorbitant PTA funding.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:36
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:It's only PART of the reason, OP. The other parts are:
1. Funding, management and educational direction of the school system.
2. In wealthy neighborhoods, parental pressure acting alongside teachers and staff looking to be hired in those schools, that work towards keeping the best teachers at those locations.
There are some incredibly well-funded failing schools in this country.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:35
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
It's only PART of the reason, OP. The other parts are:
1. Funding, management and educational direction of the school system.
2. In wealthy neighborhoods, parental pressure acting alongside teachers and staff looking to be hired in those schools, that work towards keeping the best teachers at those locations.
1. Funding, management and educational direction of the school system.
2. In wealthy neighborhoods, parental pressure acting alongside teachers and staff looking to be hired in those schools, that work towards keeping the best teachers at those locations.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:35
Subject: Re:Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
In states with town-based school districts, the better (richer) school districts have better facilities, more classes to offer and better everything else. And they may have a lot more funding than the town next-door.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:31
Subject: Re:Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
It’s because in general if a school is filled with kids from high income families, there are fewer disruptive behaviors. The parents are better advocates for public resources and on top of that they supplement both their schools and their kids with extra spending. Teachers prefer to teach in these schools because it’s less stressful and often more rewarding vs just beating back the tide of chronic stress.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:29
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Not all the way. Look at the stats of different schools with high FARMS rates. There is a disparity that can’t be explained by the SES of the families. A principal can really make or break a school.
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:29
Subject: Re:Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Ever been to Connecticut? New Jersey? Pennsylvania?
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:28
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
Anonymous wrote:And not the type of families who send their kids to that school? 95% of whether a school is considered "good" or not has nothing to do with how big their budget is. Good students make a school good, not the other way around.
Uh no
Anonymous
03/09/2023 13:27
Subject: Why does everyone pretend school quality is about the school itself?
And not the type of families who send their kids to that school? 95% of whether a school is considered "good" or not has nothing to do with how big their budget is. Good students make a school good, not the other way around.