Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 18:18     Subject: Re:Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
From my time in schools, teachers and especially administrators lie with alarming ease and frequency more so than other industries that I’ve worked in. I find that careful questioning, and letting the teacher talk more reveals whether she’s fibbing. I take it all in and then start asking questions around the areas where it seems she is lying. 9/10 she will fumble and contradict herself which leads me to ask OK so is A true or B and give more rope. 9/10 they back track on their story because they are flustered they got caught. The key is to remain calm, keep eye contact and not let go until she backs away from lying.

If it’s a policy based lie, the easiest way to stop it from s simply say “ I don’t believe that is correct, I’ll check with the district office.”, Let me make sure
I remember exactly what you said for the email. You said XYZ correct? This leads to a. Claiming that is not what they said even if it s exactly what they said and changing their too or a stammered yes but I can make an exception for you blah blah.

While they lie frequently, they don’t lie well.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 18:13     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The problem is that adults lie too and have biases. I have had trusted adults lie to face about events involving my kids (where other kids’ independently told their parents the same thing my kids told me and on at least one occasion the adult later admitted to someone else that they lied to me). So, I take things on a case-by-case basis.


This. I know my kid’s perception might be skewed and I absolutely factor that in. I also of course know my kid might not be truthful if she’s afraid of getting in trouble or some other bad outcome, though I work very hard to help her know that her honesty will always be rewarded with my empathy and understanding.

But yeah, teachers and other parents and kids can be biased too. And especially if a teacher is trying to impose a very specific narrative on something, and not just telling me facts, I will absolutely take that with a huge grain of salt.

Like if a teacher tells me that me kid got upset at recess and had trouble calming down, okay I believe you let’s work together to address. But if the teacher editorialized or tries to tell me that the reason it happened is ABC when my kid is saying it was XYZ, I’m not just going to adopt the teacher’s viewpoint. Especially if it means telling my kid “what you say happened didn’t happen.” Can you not see how that’s problematic?

I’m playing a long game here snd it requires me to give credence to what my kid tells me, even if I reserve some skepticism about specifics. You’re just one person and you’ll be out of my child’s life in a few months. I’m not going to trust you over and above my own child on all things.


Totally agree. A few years back one of my kids was having meltdowns in class. Not only did the teacher totally minimize her role in this and fail to even attempt to understand what was triggering this (the kid being ignored repeatedly by her when he needed help understanding her incredibly unnecessarily complicated instructions that were not even remotely age appropriate) but she also gleefully dramatized her accounts to us. For example telling us he was “throwing things around the classroom” but when pushed for more details admitting that he slammed his own bag down onto his own desk in frustration and didn’t throw anything. Obviously still not great behavior but not as disruptive as she made out.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:51     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
My 3.5-year old said that the teacher had a gun in her bag. this was in co-op. So I look. She had one of those Safeway bags with Exxon or Shell advertisement on it with a gas nozzle. So, where did the kid get the idea it was a gun? Youtube and from home.
I believe you.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:50     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I support you, OP. However, as a parent who volunteered extensively in my kids' elementary, I witnessed some teachers lying as well. Not the majority of teachers, of course. But there are some bad apples out there, and as adults, that is most definitely not developmentally appropriate. But in most cases, I agree with you!


OP here. OK. I hear you. However, in the cases I see, 99% of the time the kid is misrepresenting what happened and the teacher is stuck holding the bag. Yet, I routinely have parents of 13-year-olds tell me their child doesn't lie to them, so they don't believe me or some other teacher. That's the thing I don't get -- saying that your kid doesn't lie.


PP you replied to. There's an exception to this: certain autistic kids don't lie. My oldest child has high-functioning autism and can't lie to save his life. It's gotten him into more trouble than you'd ever think possible, and it's NOT a good thing. But of course I understand that most parents who are telling you this don't have such a kid!
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:47     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
I don't ask "is this true?" per se, but I will ask my child for his or her version of what's true. Because realistically, teachers are human. They cannot always see everything, they do occasionally miss nuances, and there may be things going on that the teacher simply didn't think were germane, but which are. That doesn't mean that I'm discounting the teacher's report, but that I want all the pieces, or at least as many as possible, before I decide how or if I want/need to follow up. (I don't utilize just one media news source, either.) Not to mention the fact that one of my children has an eidetic memory for dialog, which I've found extremely helpful in some situations, like when the fourth grade teacher thought DD was remiss in not wanting to be BFFs with the kids who were bullying her on a regular basis.I prefer to think that teacher's an outlier-- that she's nowhere near anyone's norm-- but even good teachers can make mistakes, and bust the wrong kid for talking, or only catch the second party involved in a two-party transgression.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:43     Subject: Re:Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
Yeah, I'm the opposite. I usually suspect that my kid is hiding key facts or missing key context when they complain about a teacher. So 9/10, I assume it's their fault and not the teacher's. But yes, I know many people who just blindly believe the lies and manipulations of their children. Kids know who they can get away with that crap with and will use it to their advantage.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:40     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
Anonymous wrote:I support you, OP. However, as a parent who volunteered extensively in my kids' elementary, I witnessed some teachers lying as well. Not the majority of teachers, of course. But there are some bad apples out there, and as adults, that is most definitely not developmentally appropriate. But in most cases, I agree with you!


OP here. OK. I hear you. However, in the cases I see, 99% of the time the kid is misrepresenting what happened and the teacher is stuck holding the bag. Yet, I routinely have parents of 13-year-olds tell me their child doesn't lie to them, so they don't believe me or some other teacher. That's the thing I don't get -- saying that your kid doesn't lie.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:39     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
It's very hard to tell what goes on at school. I'm sure kids lie, but I also think kids don't disclose things that impact them like bullying. Also kids who report they "hate" school who appear to be totally fine when you actually see them there! Very easy to take your kid too seriously. But then again, what if they are actually miserable?

it's never easy to understand your child's experience at school.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:36     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
Anonymous wrote:As a teacher (and a parent), I am always surprised when a kid tells some story to their parents about what happened in class and the parent refuses to believe that what the kid said isn't true. First of all, kids perceive things differently because they feel like they are under a microscope, but also, kids lie. They lie to get out of trouble, avoid blame or work, and for tons of other weird reasons. A parent refusing to believe an adult who is partnering with them in their child's education is a betrayal. Public service announcement: your kid tells untruths. It's developmentally appropriate. You're not a bad parent when this happens.

How did the conversation go OP? I used to teach and I know kids lie. But some MCPS teachers' communication skills are terrible. As an MCPS administrator said to me recently when a teacher got irrationally and unreasonably upset at something I said, perception is reality and if the hearer didn't understand the message correctly, it was the speaker's fault. You can't have it both ways...
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:32     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
Anonymous wrote:The problem is that adults lie too and have biases. I have had trusted adults lie to face about events involving my kids (where other kids’ independently told their parents the same thing my kids told me and on at least one occasion the adult later admitted to someone else that they lied to me). So, I take things on a case-by-case basis.


This. I know my kid’s perception might be skewed and I absolutely factor that in. I also of course know my kid might not be truthful if she’s afraid of getting in trouble or some other bad outcome, though I work very hard to help her know that her honesty will always be rewarded with my empathy and understanding.

But yeah, teachers and other parents and kids can be biased too. And especially if a teacher is trying to impose a very specific narrative on something, and not just telling me facts, I will absolutely take that with a huge grain of salt.

Like if a teacher tells me that me kid got upset at recess and had trouble calming down, okay I believe you let’s work together to address. But if the teacher editorialized or tries to tell me that the reason it happened is ABC when my kid is saying it was XYZ, I’m not just going to adopt the teacher’s viewpoint. Especially if it means telling my kid “what you say happened didn’t happen.” Can you not see how that’s problematic?

I’m playing a long game here snd it requires me to give credence to what my kid tells me, even if I reserve some skepticism about specifics. You’re just one person and you’ll be out of my child’s life in a few months. I’m not going to trust you over and above my own child on all things.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:28     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
I support you, OP. However, as a parent who volunteered extensively in my kids' elementary, I witnessed some teachers lying as well. Not the majority of teachers, of course. But there are some bad apples out there, and as adults, that is most definitely not developmentally appropriate. But in most cases, I agree with you!
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:07     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
The problem is that adults lie too and have biases. I have had trusted adults lie to face about events involving my kids (where other kids’ independently told their parents the same thing my kids told me and on at least one occasion the adult later admitted to someone else that they lied to me). So, I take things on a case-by-case basis.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:05     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
It's been a rough month for me too, op. Same deal. It's mind boggling.

-- another teacher
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:04     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
One of my kids' teachers told me once - I won't believe half of what they tell me about home if you don't believe half of what they tell you about school.
Anonymous
Post 03/07/2023 17:02     Subject: Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?
As a teacher (and a parent), I am always surprised when a kid tells some story to their parents about what happened in class and the parent refuses to believe that what the kid said isn't true. First of all, kids perceive things differently because they feel like they are under a microscope, but also, kids lie. They lie to get out of trouble, avoid blame or work, and for tons of other weird reasons. A parent refusing to believe an adult who is partnering with them in their child's education is a betrayal. Public service announcement: your kid tells untruths. It's developmentally appropriate. You're not a bad parent when this happens.