Anonymous wrote:Billions of people in Asia use gas to cook and will never displace gas. They use much more intense gas flames to cook too. Yet why is there no epidemic of childhood asthma and lung diseases in children in Asia? No epidemics of COPD in restaurant workers in Asia. This push is such a laughable farce.

These kinds of sites and ways of cooking are soooo common in Asia:



Banning has stoves is entirely ethnocentric and assumes everyone cooks using western style techniques. Somehow gas stoves are crisis for Americans, yet an order of magnitude more people in Asia use it everyday with no widespread problems.

This is an argument for a wealthy, healthy country with no real issues. Which we are.

Heavens know that in DC there are not any other issues which should have brain power spent on them.

Charles Allen to our rescue.

Anonymous wrote:Banning has stoves is entirely ethnocentric and assumes everyone cooks using western style techniques. Somehow gas stoves are crisis for Americans, yet an order of magnitude more people in Asia use it everyday with no widespread problems.

Nobody is proposing banning gas stoves.

Billions of people in Asia use gas to cook and will never displace gas. They use much more intense gas flames to cook too. Yet why is there no epidemic of childhood asthma and lung diseases in children in Asia? No epidemics of COPD in restaurant workers in Asia. This push is such a laughable farce.

These kinds of sites and ways of cooking are soooo common in Asia:








Banning has stoves is entirely ethnocentric and assumes everyone cooks using western style techniques. Somehow gas stoves are crisis for Americans, yet an order of magnitude more people in Asia use it everyday with no widespread problems.

We have a DC home with Solar. Own and EV and replaced our HVAC with mini splits years ago. The one constant you have with converting to electric is increased electric utility service rates. It is stunning how much the delivery of power has increased in ten years. To be fair, natural gas is expensive as well. I am just trying to shine some light in the entire, you will save money argument.

I like electric run homes, here is my take away.

When it gets cold, we still turn on the old boiler the heat just feels better than hot air being blown around the house.

During power outages we can no longer cook. We used to be able to light the cook top with a match and cook full meals. In fact our son still recounts direcho stories of eating dinner in the living room during the week cleanup and power outage.

Somebody above mentioned new cookware. Yes that is required and not inexpensive.

I do like the reduced risk of little hands getting burned... But I no longer have little kids... Sooo but that is a real positive.

As for the air quality issue, you actually create more air contaminants just overheating a pan with butter or oil in it, but byegons. That is not the real purpose of the proposal.

Anonymous wrote:My main issue with the proposal is that it is only for households earning 80k or less. DC is an incredibly expensive city, inflation is bad right now. I think if you are seriously concerned about the impacts of gas stoves on children in the city, you should provide subsidies or other incentives for families up to like 130k. Replacing a home appliance would be a hardship for most families in that range. It's not like people with kids making 90 or 100k in DC are living large.

I agree with this. If you're earning 80k or less, you're probably not looking at big ticket but not time critical items like stove replacements for statistical long term health benefits. Been there and it's just not on the radar compared to immediate costs and repairs. Impact would be broader if extended.

My main issue with the proposal is that it is only for households earning 80k or less. DC is an incredibly expensive city, inflation is bad right now. I think if you are seriously concerned about the impacts of gas stoves on children in the city, you should provide subsidies or other incentives for families up to like 130k. Replacing a home appliance would be a hardship for most families in that range. It's not like people with kids making 90 or 100k in DC are living large.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Just to be clear, you prefer to see poor children in DC suffer from asthma and increased risk of diabetes and cancer rather than be provided with an affordable means of reducing those risks? How many children are you willing to see suffer simply because you don't like Charles Allen?

Jeff, seriously? You fell for that "study"?

DC would be better off getting rid of rats. There is a larger health impact to the city's kids based on rats and mosquitoes running/flying unchecked in DC.

I don't know what "study" you think I fell for, but there are dozens of studies going back decades. But again, the legislation doesn't force anyone to do anything. I just provides an opportunity. Why do you oppose that?

The Stanford study quoted in the WaPo article is considered the "Gold Standard" and even it had to use plastic wrapped kitchens to produce the results required for the study. The same study also mentions that any plastic wrapped room in the house will eventually show contaminated air. Imagine that, we need ventilation in our homes.

Anyway, it is not really a choice. That is the greenwashing. It also introduces a new tax in the form of an additional permitting fee for gas appliance installations.

Is the bill going to also buy the new induction cook top recipients new cookware?

Is it going to deliver hot food during power outages?

They're not banning gas stoves in D.C., anyway, they're proposing an incentive for households who earn less than $80,000 to replace them.

The studies notwithstanding, the more we can shift to electric power instead of gas, the better for climate change — making the electric grid greener is far easier than mitigating the effects of burning natural gas.

Also, it's possible that the D.C. Council is doing this because they think it's a good idea on the merits, not to be part of The Discourse?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Just to be clear, you prefer to see poor children in DC suffer from asthma and increased risk of diabetes and cancer rather than be provided with an affordable means of reducing those risks? How many children are you willing to see suffer simply because you don't like Charles Allen?

Jeff, seriously? You fell for that "study"?

DC would be better off getting rid of rats. There is a larger health impact to the city's kids based on rats and mosquitoes running/flying unchecked in DC.

I don't know what "study" you think I fell for, but there are dozens of studies going back decades. But again, the legislation doesn't force anyone to do anything. I just provides an opportunity. Why do you oppose that?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Just to be clear, you prefer to see poor children in DC suffer from asthma and increased risk of diabetes and cancer rather than be provided with an affordable means of reducing those risks? How many children are you willing to see suffer simply because you don't like Charles Allen?

Tell me you don’t know how to read studies without telling me…

Jeff, this is embarrassing you fell for that.

Here is an analysis of 41 separate studies that concludes, "in children, gas cooking increases the risk of asthma".

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113

That doesn't seem particularly hard to understand.

But, if you are not concerned about the risk, don't replace your stove. Nobody is forcing you. This bill just provides an opportunity for low income folks who do want to replace gas stoves.

jsteele wrote:Just to be clear, you prefer to see poor children in DC suffer from asthma and increased risk of diabetes and cancer rather than be provided with an affordable means of reducing those risks? How many children are you willing to see suffer simply because you don't like Charles Allen?

Jeff, seriously? You fell for that "study"?

DC would be better off getting rid of rats. There is a larger health impact to the city's kids based on rats and mosquitoes running/flying unchecked in DC.

In no way is this a "dead" national issue.

jsteele wrote:Just to be clear, you prefer to see poor children in DC suffer from asthma and increased risk of diabetes and cancer rather than be provided with an affordable means of reducing those risks? How many children are you willing to see suffer simply because you don't like Charles Allen?

Tell me you don’t know how to read studies without telling me…

Jeff, this is embarrassing you fell for that.

Just to be clear, you prefer to see poor children in DC suffer from asthma and increased risk of diabetes and cancer rather than be provided with an affordable means of reducing those risks? How many children are you willing to see suffer simply because you don't like Charles Allen?

One of the things that frustrates me to know end about DC is its ability to seize on niche issues and attempt to shape itself as a national lead on the topic. As if when it does go viral, somehow DC will be credited as the State that fostered the change.

The latest one is the apparently nationally dead topic of replacing gas appliances with electric. Just when you thought the subject might have been made up by fear mongering Republicans, DC resurrects it and says "don't worry, we will lead the way..."

And to top it off is is being heralded by our savior Charles Allen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/02/04/dc-gas-stoves-charles-allen/